High School Wrestling

[Hartzler]

Wrestling has always been my nemesis due to the low light, in door gymnasiums. And in my part of Southern California, they frown on flash during the actual matches. So I've learned about getting rid of noise in post shot processing. This is a shot I took earlier this evening and I'm looking for expertise in how best to frame and crop these kind of shots.

Should I back off on how tight I'm cropping. Do I want to leave more background to help with rule of thirds style placement? Any thoughts will be appreciated in how to improve in this kind of low-light sports photography.



Nikon D700, AF Nikkor 80-200mm 1:2.8, 1/320 F 2.8 ISO 5000

[CaptainNH]

They say that to shoot sports well, you should have a thorough understanding of the rules and play to anticipate the next move. I have no idea about wrestling, particularly why the red guy has strapped a red soft-toy turtley-thing to his left ankle So perhaps take what I have to say with a grain of salt

I feel for you re the lighting - it's crying out for a trio of wirelessly triggered strobes around the field of play/ring/mat - whatever you call it.

The best solution would be to up the lighting - if you can't do it with flash, then are you able to use constant lighting?

Looking at your shot, the composition of the wrestlers looks good, and the low angle is great! If you're keen on fine-tuning composition, I'd be tempted to shoot wide to give a little latitude for the crop.

I'm surprised the background isn't more oof, given you were shooting at f/2.8, in fact the whole image looks reasonably sharp from front to back - I'm not sure how much sharpening you've done to this image. To me, it looks like the focus point is somewhere near the school sign, which has resulted in the wrestlers not being sharp?

Good luck with it - I don't envy you're lighting situation.

[Hartzler]

Thanks Captain,

Good, helpful response. I knew the wrestlers were off-focus. But your comment about the sign prompted me to realize that my Nikon likes auto focusing on that sign for some reason. With the wrestlers moving so fast, it's a good thing to keep in mind. To get low, I just sit on the floor, it seems to give me better shots, because they so often end up on the ground anyway. I might try my 50mm 1.4 again at least for part of the match. It'll give me a wider background.

The red thing around the young man in red's ankle is his knee pad. He had wrapped his knee to give it some additional support and at some point, his knee pad was pulled down, but they kept wrestling. They'll usually only stop for an injury or if there's blood on the mat.

As for sharpening, because of the high ISO, I do a lot of noise reduction and sharpening.

Thanks again,

Mark

[PhotoCarp]

First of all your picture is nowhere to be seen as I write this so I can't comment on that. Now on to the meat of the matter.

Flash. As for using a flash I use a shoe mount for HS wrestling. I have asked wrestlers if the flash bothers them and they tell me that they don't even notice it.
Example: 20081227_009.jpg
At the college level I was told by the coach at the school where I primarily shoot that I can not use a flash when I am matside. When the light is so bad at those matches I will set up a single remote flash.
Example: RWU '09-'10
Unfortunately I don't have a picture of my setup. For more info go to strobist.com

Cropping. I crop mine so that should someone want an 8x10 a significant part of the picture will not be lost. Like CaptainNH says, opening it up a little will not hurt.

Rule of thirds. When shooting sports take the rule of thirds and toss it in your bag for another day. Especially with a full contact sport like wrestling. In most instances you will want to get the wrestlers' facial expressions but you will also want to include as much of their bodies.
RWU '08-'09

And don't stop shooting after the buzzer. There is always that shot you will want to get.
3Reg062
20080301_201.jpg

Like any endeavor the more you do it the better you'll get. So get out there and shoot, shoot, shoot

And always be ready to get out of the way.
20080128_014.jpg

[Hartzler]

PhotoCarp,

Solid advice, I appreciate it. The lighting is the key and in our county, they let you use flash only before and after the actual matches. Still, as I get to know the coaches, we'll see what alternatives I can do or if they'll consider altering the rules. Junior Varsity isn't so bad, but for Varsity, they tend to turn off lights except for an above head spot light. Which means that I have to be careful or I get blown out high lights in addition to the dim lighting.

Good advice on leaving enough room for an 8x10.

Thanks,

Mark

[Jim Bryant]

Here at the local high school, the gym lighting (or lack of it thereof) is so horrible that I set up three remote strobes, two at the front corners and one in back, these are triggered using a Canon Speed light transmitters ST-E2's. They turn off all the overhead lights and use one flood positioned overhead of the mat. Therefore.........no flash...no photos.... period. In the other local high school gyms in the area, you can get by shooting ISO 800 at f2.8 and 250th second.

I shot these using the following settings:
Date: 1/7/10
Time: 7:47:00 PM
Latitude:
Longitude:
Model: Canon EOS-1D Mark II
Serial #:
Firmware: Adobe Photoshop CS3 Macintosh
Frame #:
Lens (mm): 93
ISO: 800
Aperture: 2.8
Shutter: 1/250
Exp. Comp.: 0.0
Flash Comp.:
Program: Manual
Focus Mode:
White Bal.:
ICC Profile: Adobe RGB (1998) (embedded)
Contrast:
Sharpening:
Quality:

[facesandplaces]

Great shot Hartzler considering the lighting you had to work with!
I don't know if your familiar with the Nikon 50mmf1.2D lens (available new) this lens is extremely sharp edge to edge at f2, not so for the f1.4 @ f2 This lens would allow you to dial down your ISO's somewhat or give you a few additional f-stops over your f1.4, for the same sharpness or resolution. Also, the slight additional light afforded with the f1.2 also aids focusing ability in low light which is where this lens shines. The only drawback, if your hooked on autofocus, is that it's a manual focus only lens. (DX camera = 75mmf1.2)

Another thing you might consider, if you can get away with it, is aiming a camera mounted flash (SB 800 or 900 @manual setting) at the ceiling, not the wrestlers eyes (if that's why the no flash policy exist) while utilizing the rear curtain flash setting on your Nikon to blend the existing room lighting with your flash.

[PhotoCarp]

@Hartzler
Oh how I hate that single overhead light. But somehow you managed to get yours to come out well! You were lucky to have a white mat. That helped a lot with bounce. An additional suggestion: in that gym try to set up on the same side as the scorekeeper. The light from the sign will help out a little and the "Possession" arrow will not be the single most annoying thing in the shot. On the flip side when shooting toward the crowd you're liable to pick up reflections off of anything with reflective fabric (I call this "sneaker flare").

@Jim Bryant
Excellent idea with the three strobes. I try to avoid direct light by bouncing off of anything (i.e. wall, ceiling, card, etc.) so it doesn't look harsh.

@facesandplaces
Although the 50mmf1.2D is a great lens it is a bad choice for wrestling. It's too wide for action across the mat thus causing a loss of resolution when cropping. I use the Canon 70-200 f/2.8. I believe Nikon has a comparable lens to that. The ceiling aimed flash is a good idea but it limits you to shooting landscape. A huge majority of wrestling shots are landscape but there are those times when portrait is preferred.

[gturner]

Originally Posted by PhotoCarp

@facesandplaces
Although the 50mmf1.2D is a great lens it is a bad choice for wrestling. It's too wide for action across the mat thus causing a loss of resolution when cropping. I use the Canon 70-200 f/2.8. I believe Nikon has a comparable lens to that. The ceiling aimed flash is a good idea but it limits you to shooting landscape. A huge majority of wrestling shots are landscape but there are those times when portrait is preferred.

not quite sure I understand that. Just rotate the flash when you shoot portrait shots.

[semperlex]

Thank you for this post! I have ben reading this forum for over a year, thought I was a member but I guess not (just signed up)! Anyways I too have similar situations involving sporting events at schools. Between wrestling, basketball and now karate, I am having a difficult time. For wrestling, my next step is to set up three Nikon SB flashes, and shoot through umbrellas to minimize the hot light from distraction to the athletes. For karate, it takes place in a 10 foot ceiling room, so I will be trying the bounce off of ceiling next. Basketball I am just frustrated! The lenses I have been using is:
70-200 f2.8 VR
24-70 f2.8
50mm 1.4

What are your opinions if I upgrade from a D300 to a D700? I am waiting to see what Nikon does with this model... D700s? D800? If I could, I would go all the way to a D3s but that is not possible. Any help and comments are greatly appreciated...