Me? The Camera? Me & the Camera?

[amy_bb]

Hi all,

I'm trying to decide if the results of this weekend's gymnastics shots are due to the limitations of my camera? My skills? My lens? Weird gym lighting (I was told by a gym dad that they were "sodium vapor lights"??!!). All of the above? None of the above?

This EXIF for this shot is below and I already ran it through Noiseware at full suppression b/c it was uber-grainy. The original, unprocessed shot is located in the same folder on Flickr and is shot #DSC07965--as a matter of fact, shots # 07963, 07964 and 07965 were taken in quick succession w/no adjustments to my camera or changes in position by me. Look at the strange variation in results!

I am not able to use a flash in the gym. I was using my 70/200mm Tamron 2.8 lens on my monopod. There was no natural light in the gym. I tried to use a custom white balance but the lights were bouncing off a white vinyl ceiling and throwing off such a weird spectrum that I ended up using AWB.



I shot at full manual and had the lens as wide open as I could. I had the shutter speed as high as I could while keeping the EV at 0. The highest ISO on my camera is 3200.

Camera Sony DSLR-A330
Exposure 0.001 sec (1/800)
Aperture f/2.8
Focal Length 70 mm
ISO Speed 3200
Exposure Bias 0 EV
Flash Off, Did not fire
Image Description SONY DSC
Orientation Horizontal (normal)

[IABoomer]

I think some of the problem stems from the gym lighting. Lights like that flicker and cycle as part of their operation, so depending on your shutter speed, you might catch a more red part of the cycle, or a more green part, which makes your white balancing a pain.

What I've read in other places is, you have to use a shutter speed that's long enough to get a full cycle of the light, which might be as slow as 1/60 for 60Hz lighting. Obviously, if there's a lot of movement of your subject, you're going to get motion blur then.

The image you posted looks a little underexposed, which could be the meter seeing all that bright white background and exposing for that. I'd probably bump the shutter up to somewhere between 1/400 and 1/250. You'll still freeze most of the motion, but your subject will be brighter. It's easier to take a slightly over-exposed image and pull it down than it is to take an under-exposed image and push it up. This is where the term "expose to the right (ETTR)" comes from.

[wulf]

I agree about the shutter speed, and probably see if you can trim a bit off the ISO. In fact, you can probably drop the shutter speed more than you think. For the points when the gymnasts are holding their position, their stillness is to your benefit; when they are moving, a bit of blur can be seen as a benefit because it shows motion (especially if the static elements, like the equipment, are not suffering from motion blur).

Wulf

[amy_bb]

[

Originally Posted by IABoomer

I think some of the problem stems from the gym lighting. Lights like that flicker and cycle as part of their operation, so depending on your shutter speed, you might catch a more red part of the cycle, or a more green part, which makes your white balancing a pain.

What I've read in other places is, you have to use a shutter speed that's long enough to get a full cycle of the light, which might be as slow as 1/60 for 60Hz lighting. Obviously, if there's a lot of movement of your subject, you're going to get motion blur then.

The image you posted looks a little underexposed, which could be the meter seeing all that bright white background and exposing for that. I'd probably bump the shutter up to somewhere between 1/400 and 1/250. You'll still freeze most of the motion, but your subject will be brighter. It's easier to take a slightly over-exposed image and pull it down than it is to take an under-exposed image and push it up. This is where the term "expose to the right (ETTR)" comes from.

IABoomer-Thank you for explaining the light cycle to me. That makes perfect sense based on the results of my "spray and pray" shots during the meet that I referenced in my post. Being a newbie I was not familiar w/the ETTR term. I always thought that blown out shots were harder to get back? Huh.

Originally Posted by wulf

I agree about the shutter speed, and probably see if you can trim a bit off the ISO. In fact, you can probably drop the shutter speed more than you think. For the points when the gymnasts are holding their position, their stillness is to your benefit; when they are moving, a bit of blur can be seen as a benefit because it shows motion (especially if the static elements, like the equipment, are not suffering from motion blur).

Wulf

Wulf-You are right, there are many points in their routines (especially on balance beam) where they pose or move slowly. On vault, bars and floor, not so much. I guess I'm always shooting for that "complete-stop-action-no-blur-like-I'm-a-Sports-Illustrated-photographer" like moment but I don't think I can do that w/my equipment and current knowledge base.When I look at the professional shots taken at other meets I do see some blur in the body movement now that I look at it.

Just wondering if the combination of my lens and ISO would, perhaps be an indicator that Sony does not make a good camera for shooting in low light. Do others w/Nikons or Canons find that their low light shots are much crisper and cleaner?

[IABoomer]

If you completely blow out details, you're not going to get them back. If, in this instance, you bumped your exposure up by lengthening the shutter time, the only thing you might be blowing out is the background, and really, who cares. I'd be okay with a couple blown spots in the white background if it meant I could see crisp colors and details of the girl.

Was there a request to not shoot with flash? If you could use flash, you'd have the ability to freeze motion more and the flash might overwhelm the strange ambient.

[amy_bb]

Originally Posted by IABoomer

If you completely blow out details, you're not going to get them back. If, in this instance, you bumped your exposure up by lengthening the shutter time, the only thing you might be blowing out is the background, and really, who cares. I'd be okay with a couple blown spots in the white background if it meant I could see crisp colors and details of the girl.

Was there a request to not shoot with flash? If you could use flash, you'd have the ability to freeze motion more and the flash might overwhelm the strange ambient.

IABoomer-I think it would be quite a challenge to truly overexpose in that gym but I could certainly reduce the shutter speed to let in more light. True, the background isn't important at all in this photo. There is no flash photography allowed at any gymnastics meets (danger to the gymnast while performing their routines) so that is unfortunately not an option.

[jdepould]

Originally Posted by IABoomer

Was there a request to not shoot with flash? If you could use flash, you'd have the ability to freeze motion more and the flash might overwhelm the strange ambient.

You'd need to blast the flash with a small aperture (f/8 or smaller) and base ISO to get a dark background, and even then it'd probably still be green. In theory you could gel the flash, but that's probably more trouble than it's worth anyway.

On the upshot, second curtain shutter could get you some nice motion trails.

[RichardTaylor]

A small amount of PPing helps with this pic.

(1) Lighten it (new layer, blending mode screen 100%)
(2) Do a bit of colour correction (cool it to get rid of the purple walls)
(3) Selectively add a bit of warmth to the gymnast.

[amy_bb]

Originally Posted by RichardTaylor

A small amount of PPing helps with this pic.

(1) Lighten it (new layer, blending mode screen 100%)
(2) Do a bit of colour correction (cool it to get rid of the purple walls)
(3) Selectively add a bit of warmth to the gymnast.

I had done some PP on the original (slightly different steps but same idea) here:




I am sure it could still use lots more work, but it started to look over processed so I stopped. Since I originally shot 800+ pics (hoping to delete down to less than 200) I am trying to get as much right SOC as possible. Thanks for the tips!

[Jim Bryant]

You can't use flash for gymnastics...........Crop for impact!!!!!!!!