Your thoughts on Sony Alpha NEX-3K

[vic530]

I'm planning on buying a dSLR camera and found this one at walmart. It looks very compact and easy to carry and handle. It has a 14.2 megapixel resolution, up to 7 frames per second, ISO 12800 sensitivity, still image format of JPEG, RAW, RAW + JPEG among other features. I'm new to photoraphy and I'm looking for a "beginner" dSLR camera and would appreciate your honest thoughts on this camera.

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[NicoleScraps]

I saw that camera at Sears (I think) the other day and was wondering about it. It looks awesome for a "throw in your bag" type camera. Maybe somewhere in between P&S and dSLR? I told hubby I WANT THAT!!!

[vic530]

Originally Posted by NicoleScraps

I saw that camera at Sears (I think) the other day and was wondering about it. It looks awesome for a "throw in your bag" type camera. Maybe somewhere in between P&S and dSLR? I told hubby I WANT THAT!!!

Yes, the camera does look awesome; very attractive.

[inkista]

Sony NEXs give dSLR image quality because they're using the same size sensors. These are 1.5x crop bodies. Where they differ vastly from dSLRs (aside from size and weight) is in the control systems and ergonomics, and lens choices. Right now, the Sony E-mount is really really new, and the number of lenses that are available for it is really small (3, with 4 more in 2011, and 3 more in 2012) compared to what you can get on the dSLR side of the fence. A lot of the folks who shoot with one are using it as a secondary "travel-light" camera to their SLR gear, despite the fact that Sony is attempting to position their NEXs as between-dSLRs-and-P&S cameras.

If you want a faster than f/2.8 prime on a Sony NEX, you're probably going to have to adapt a manual focus lens. And that's a whole 'nother thing.

Personally, I think it's too early to make the jump, but if those three E-mount lenses work for ya, and the NEX3 feels good in your hands, then go for it. For me, personally, I don't like the look of the NEX cameras, the description of the shooting controls that I've read make me think it's not something I'd enjoy using as I rarely shoot in auto modes. Having to confirm my aperture or shutter setting for every shot when in Manual mode is just... ugh. And the lens selection keeps me out of it for now, although I would really enjoy grabbing old manual focus glass to slap on a NEX with adapters.

For me, right now, I'd probably prefer going with a smaller-sensored (2x crop factor) micro four-thirds camera simply for the Panasonic 20mm f/1.7 pancake lens, and the $1000+ Panasonic 7-14 ultrawide; neither of which have equivalents on the NEX side of the fence. Time, obviously, will change this.

But mostly, I'm waiting to see what Nikon and Canon are going to throw into the ring. And what I really really want is a cheaper version of the Leica M9 that looks like the Fuji X100 and uses something like the X100's viewfinder, with a good faster than f/2 pancake prime.

[vic530]

Originally Posted by inkista

Sony NEXs give dSLR image quality because they're using the same size sensors. These are 1.5x crop bodies. Where they differ vastly from dSLRs (aside from size and weight) is in the control systems and ergonomics, and lens choices. Right now, the Sony E-mount is really really new, and the number of lenses that are available for it is really small (3, with 4 more in 2011, and 3 more in 2012) compared to what you can get on the dSLR side of the fence. A lot of the folks who shoot with one are using it as a secondary "travel-light" camera to their SLR gear, despite the fact that Sony is attempting to position their NEXs as between-dSLRs-and-P&S cameras.

If you want a faster than f/2.8 prime on a Sony NEX, you're probably going to have to adapt a manual focus lens. And that's a whole 'nother thing.

Personally, I think it's too early to make the jump, but if those three E-mount lenses work for ya, and the NEX3 feels good in your hands, then go for it. For me, personally, I don't like the look of the NEX cameras, the description of the shooting controls that I've read make me think it's not something I'd enjoy using as I rarely shoot in auto modes. Having to confirm my aperture or shutter setting for every shot when in Manual mode is just... ugh. And the lens selection keeps me out of it for now, although I would really enjoy grabbing old manual focus glass to slap on a NEX with adapters.

For me, right now, I'd probably prefer going with a smaller-sensored (2x crop factor) micro four-thirds camera simply for the Panasonic 20mm f/1.7 pancake lens, and the $1000+ Panasonic 7-14 ultrawide; neither of which have equivalents on the NEX side of the fence. Time, obviously, will change this.

But mostly, I'm waiting to see what Nikon and Canon are going to throw into the ring. And what I really really want is a cheaper version of the Leica M9 that looks like the Fuji X100 and uses something like the X100's viewfinder, with a good faster than f/2 pancake prime.

So for someone like me who's starting out in photoraphy...do you recommend this camera or go with something different?

[inkista]

Originally Posted by vic530

So for someone like me who's starting out in photoraphy...do you recommend this camera or go with something different?

Depends. What do you want to shoot and how far do you plan to go with photography? Right now, I don't think the NEXs are going to foster learning to shoot in the non-Auto modes. So, if you don't plan on using a camera for much beyond high-quality snapshots, and the occasional street shooting, landscapes, and information portraits, and low-light capability and shallow DoF isn't that huge a deal, then it's probably a terrific camera.

If, however, you want to shoot sports or wildlife, or get into professional photography, maybe a dSLR is going to offer you some better options for future expansion. Ideally, you'd probably like to have both, but most of us can't afford to shoot more than one system simultaneously.

The thing to keep in mind is that these large-sensor compacts are actually just as expensive as entry-level dSLRs. So, you're paying the same amount of money for less capability and a smaller size. If you're pursuing photography passionately as a hobby, right now, I still think the better value is going to be with a dSLR system, but that may change relatively soon. And I think that if you're infatuated with the NEX and it's haunting your dreams, then there's really no reason not to go there--it's a wonderfully capable camera that can do a lot of things small-sensor P&S cameras can't. Just understand that you're incredibly limited on lenses.

And unlike P&S cameras, where the lens is built-in, on an interchangeable lens system, the lens is the other half of the camera. And more than that--it's the more permanent half. Digital camera bodies are like a lot of other computer equipment or cellphones--you upgrade them for new features relatively frequently. The glass is actually going to be your permanent purchase--the ones that go from body to body with you. When you buy a camera with interchangeable lenses, you're mostly locking yourself into a mount system.

This is hard to suss when you come from the world of P&S cameras, but lenses are actually in many ways more important than the camera in determining what you can and cannot shoot. The three lenses that Sony offers for NEX right now are:

18-200 f/3.5-6.3 superzoom. These are generally very versatile lenses for framing, but they suck for low light, and the image quality typically has compromises to cover the large range. Great for travelling light, but a sort of jack of all trades, master of none lens.

18-55mm f/3.5-5.6. A typical kit lens. Cheap, and useful for landscapes and shooting people on vacation. But again, not great for low light, and a relatively limited wide-to-normal focal length range.

You ain't gonna be shooting indoor sports with either of these two lenses, and both of them render the NEX3/5 unpocketable.

16mm f/2.8. Wide angle prime lens. The fastest one Sony offers, and f/2.8, while it can do available light (i.e., indoors without a flash), is not fantastic at it, the way an f/2 or wider lens would be. It's also really wide. Equivalent to 24mm on film. This is wider than most P&S cameras zoomed all the way out. And the DoF is going to be deep just from the focal length. I'd actually prefer a lens in the 35mm to 50mm range for my single fast prime. But that's me.

Now, maybe these lenses will work for you. That's up to you. Everybody has different tastes in how they work, how they frame, and how far away they want to stand from their subjects. To me, though, I don't use equivalent lenses on my dSLRs, nor do I want them, so for me, Sony NEX is out.

[Nicole]

I can say from experience that the interface has improved vastly with the update to the latest firmware. Makes it much easier to use manual mode quickly and effectively since you can now use the button in the middle of the dial as a custom button that you can set 3 different things for. It made it much easier for me. That button now will change ISO, WB, or the HDR settings. Since I tend to keep it in manual, I now have easy access to most of what I use.

It would never replace my full DSLR, but, like has been said, it's a great throw in your bag camera. I've been considering getting an adapter for my Nikon lenses, but I haven't yet. If Nikon had put one out by now, that would've been what I got, but that's how things go. I am constantly glad I have it and I get much better results than with my other P&S, if only because I now have the option to use a mode with more options than the P mode. Not that I couldn't get good results, it was just a matter of knowing how to use the other modes to the best of their abilities.

Now, would I recommend a NEX instead of a regular DSLR? That's a tough question. I don't think the menu system is that difficult and like I said, I shoot in M quite often (the mode second to that is the sweep panorama mode). I don't think it would be bad as a starting camera as long as you aren't hoping to use the lenses from that on a DSLR if you decide to go that route. The biggest detriment for me would be that it is hard to get a longer focal distance since the 18-200mm lens is about as expensive as the camera here. So that was out for me. I do think it's a quality little camera for what it is. And if you consider the potential limitations that inkista has stated and consider how / what you would want to use it for, you probably have a better idea of the answer. However, if you can get your hands on one to actually try the menu (and have someone at the store show you how it works first time around), you'll know if it's going to be a real deal breaker. I wasn't totally happy with any of the controls on the micro-4/3 cameras that I saw, but the NEX had all the nifty little bells and whistles that eventually sold me on picking it. I wouldn't give it up though, that's for sure... not unless Nikon finally came out with one

[jdepould]

When are you planning to purchase? Is it something you've been wanting to do and putting off already, or something you want to take your time on to make sure you're happy?

It's a really frustrating time to be small camera shopping right now. There are a lot of really interesting near misses; cameras that have great specs and hardware, but fall short somehow. There have been rumors of a Nikon large-sensor compact for quite a while now, but nothing has materialized yet. None of the cameras seem quite photographer-centric enough yet. Lots of people are looking for a modern-day Leica M3 without the Cadillac price tag. It just hasn't happened yet.

[inkista]

Thanks for that--I didn't know about the firmware update helping out the UI. That sounds much better than the initial review on dpreview.

I should also point out that the lens choice isn't that limited if you're willing to adapt manual lenses. And the NEX is theoretically capable of using practically any adapted manual focus SLR lens, and a lot of rangefinder glass, too--another reason SLR users have NEXs as supplemental cameras--sharing lenses. But for a beginner, this could be a bit intimidating.

When you adapt a manual focus lens, you need an adapter ring. These abound on eBay. But typically, the lens needs an aperture ring (which eliminates all Canon EOS and Nikon G lenses), and there is (of course) no electronic communication between the camera body and the lens. That means that you have no aperture control of the lens from the camera body, so you're limited to full Manual and Aperture Priority modes, that you have no autofocus function, and that you're probably limited to "stop-down" metering.

This has to do with the aperture control-from-the-camera thing. Most cameras these days, leave the aperture of the lens wide open until the picture is taken. The aperture is only closed down to the f-number you set when the picture is taken. This gives both you and the camera's AE/AF systems the most light to see by in order to focus and compose. The camera's internal metering system adjust the readings for the aperture you've set.

With most cameras, if they don't sense a lens on the mount (no electronic signals), the the meter will only be accurate for the amount of light coming in; it can't compensate for an aperture setting, because it can't find one. So, you have to actually stop the lens down to get accurate metering (most adapters typically have some way of doing this, but some may not). This will make the viewfinder darker.

For oldtime film shooters who remember shooting with all-manual cameras and no autofocus, and (maybe even no built-in meters), this is not that big a deal. But for newbies who are coming from auto-everything P&S cameras, it can seem incredibly PITA-laden.

And. When you get a lens with an aperture ring that was manual focus back in the day , it's going to be older. Which means older optical designs, older coatings, etc. If you get lenses from before the '80s, chances are good there aren't a lot of zooms to choose from, let alone superzooms or ultrawides. And everybody wants the fast wide primes (because of the crop factor). Also, SLR lenses are lots bigger than Sony NEX lenses.

OTOH. You could pick up rangefinder lenses like the M-Mount Cosina Voigtlander Nokton 40mm f/1.4 pancake for about $450. And for the big spenders, there's always new Zeiss ZM and Leica M glass.

Sorry for the firehosing. I'm a manual-focus lens adapting fool.