B/W Conversion Confusion

[SandeeWig]

Took this of my niece and converted to b/w for b/w portrait assignment. I love the image, the original is in color, but the more I look at the conversion, the less I care for it. It seems too "gray" and not enough black and white. Do you agree?

In a nutshell, i used the monochrome channel mixer to boost reds and reduce blues and greens. I was afraid to go too light because of the bright spot on her lips. After that I messed w/ contrast and curves a bit.

What do you think? What would you have done? (I'll post the color image tonite when I get home so you can see what I was working with).

All other comments/critique welcome as far as composition, crop, etc. Thanks so much!!



Canon EOS DIGITAL REBEL XSi
Shooting Date/Time: 7/3/2009 15:26:11
Tv(Shutter Speed): 1/80Sec.
Av(Aperture Value): F6.3
Metering Modes: Spot
Exposure Compensation: 0
ISO Speed: 100
Flash: Off
Post in PS CS2

[SimonFilip]

Helloooo Aimee.
I thought I'd make a couple very small changes of my own and see what you thought.



I changed the levels a bit and added a vignetting to make it a little more dramatic. Hope you like it!

[autofocus]

Originally Posted by SandeeWig

Took this of my niece and converted to b/w for b/w portrait assignment. I love the image, the original is in color, but the more I look at the conversion, the less I care for it. It seems too "gray" and not enough black and white. Do you agree?

In a nutshell, i used the monochrome channel mixer to boost reds and reduce blues and greens. I was afraid to go too light because of the bright spot on her lips. After that I messed w/ contrast and curves a bit.

What do you think? What would you have done? (I'll post the color image tonite when I get home so you can see what I was working with).

All other comments/critique welcome as far as composition, crop, etc. Thanks so much!!



Canon EOS DIGITAL REBEL XSi
Shooting Date/Time: 7/3/2009 15:26:11
Tv(Shutter Speed): 1/80Sec.
Av(Aperture Value): F6.3
Metering Modes: Spot
Exposure Compensation: 0
ISO Speed: 100
Flash: Off
Post in PS CS2

Aimee, it's really hard to tell because what I see on my monitor could look very different than what someone else sees on their flat screen, or monitor. I do all our edits on a calibrated CRT, and when I view them later on my laptop / LCD flat screen the brightness and the contrast levels can make them look very different. All that said, I think you have a very nice B/W composition here that looks really good to me Any further levels adjustments probably would have blown out some highlights.

Vinnie

[ressalg]

I'm not sure what software you're using for PP and I've never seen a monochrome channel mixer in the software I use (Photoshop CS2). Then again, I've never looked for a monochrome channel mixer either.

When I did the B&W assignment, I tried a couple of different things. One was to convert the image to greyscale. But the end result kind of looked like what you're talking about... more greys and off-whites then B&W. Next I tried desaturating it which seemed to work a lot better. After a few tweeks I had something more like what I was looking for.

[AlphaBjerke]

I think it looks fine as far as the conversion. I would like to see it cropped a little tighter though.

[autofocus]

Originally Posted by ressalg

I'm not sure what software you're using for PP and I've never seen a monochrome channel mixer in the software I use (Photoshop CS2). Then again, I've never looked for a monochrome channel mixer either.

When I did the B&W assignment, I tried a couple of different things. One was to convert the image to greyscale. But the end result kind of looked like what you're talking about... more greys and off-whites then B&W. Next I tried desaturating it which seemed to work a lot better. After a few tweeks I had something more like what I was looking for.

Image>Adjustments>Channel Mixer, click monochrome, adjust color channels to fine tune your B/W

Vinnie

[kencaleno]

I like the crop-love the expression-I just adjusted contrast to separate person from background:

Ctrl+J
blend mode-screen (adjust opacity slider)
flatten

Then:

Filter>sharpen>unsharp mask
amount 30
radius 50
threshold 0

save as:

[SandeeWig]

Originally Posted by SimonFilip

Helloooo Aimee.
I thought I'd make a couple very small changes of my own and see what you thought.

I changed the levels a bit and added a vignetting to make it a little more dramatic. Hope you like it!

Hi Simon. Thank you for your edits. I considered the vignette, but was concerned about her hair blending to the background even more than it does already. I wanted it to be defined at least a little bit. I do like your edit though and think if I could separate the background a bit more from her, the vignette would look quite nice. Thanks so much!

Originally Posted by auto-focus

Aimee, it's really hard to tell because what I see on my monitor could look very different than what someone else sees on their flat screen, or monitor. I do all our edits on a calibrated CRT, and when I view them later on my laptop / LCD flat screen the brightness and the contrast levels can make them look very different. All that said, I think you have a very nice B/W composition here that looks really good to me Any further levels adjustments probably would have blown out some highlights.

Vinnie

Vinnie, thank you for your insight and positive comments about the image in question. Very much appreciated.

Originally Posted by ressalg

I'm not sure what software you're using for PP and I've never seen a monochrome channel mixer in the software I use (Photoshop CS2). Then again, I've never looked for a monochrome channel mixer either.

When I did the B&W assignment, I tried a couple of different things. One was to convert the image to greyscale. But the end result kind of looked like what you're talking about... more greys and off-whites then B&W. Next I tried desaturating it which seemed to work a lot better. After a few tweeks I had something more like what I was looking for.

Hi ressalg. I'm using PS CS2 as well, and did exactly what Vinnie (auto-focus) explained to access the "monochrome channel mixer". Sorry I didn't make that more clear in my original post.

I'm still struggling with the best conversion to b/w. When I play in the "Channels" tab, I can find what I like in there by removing 2 of the 3 (blue, red, or green), but I just don't know how to get it to stay that way!

Originally Posted by AlphaBjerke

I think it looks fine as far as the conversion. I would like to see it cropped a little tighter though.

Thank you AlphaBjerke! I can't tell you how many ways I played with the crop. In fact, I wasn't sure about this one because it cuts off her elbow leading to her holding up the peace sign. Tighter looked odd to me because of her hand kinda coming out of nowhere by completely disconnecting her upper arm from her wrist. But, that coulda just been me.

Originally Posted by kencaleno

I like the crop-love the expression-I just adjusted contrast to separate person from background:

Ctrl+J / blend mode-screen (adjust opacity slider) / flatten

Then:

Filter>sharpen>unsharp mask / amount 30 / radius 50 / threshold 0
save as:

Ken, thank you so much for your edits and explanation. I think that is what was giving me the most pause. I admit, I had not played around with separating her from the background and I think your edit does that nicely. A tad bright in the face for my taste, but that could be easily masked.

Again, thanks so much for taking the time.

[autofocus]

Aimee, I'm a little confused by your statement: "I'm still struggling with the best conversion to b/w. When I play in the "Channels" tab, I can find what I like in there by removing 2 of the 3 (blue, red, or green), but I just don't know how to get it to stay that way!"

..Removing 2 of the 3 channels?? - Just use the sliders to tweak your B/W

..I just don't know how to get it to stay that way!" ?? - Just save your newly created file as a "Save As" using whatever file naming scheme you use for your various edits. I always keep the original out of camera file as is and typically re-name my files after edits as the following example:

N 012fc5x7bwS, where:
N = Nikon, or C would be for Canon (we shoot with both cameras)
012 = the original out of camera file number
f = fixed (or edited)
c = cropped image
5x7 = obviously, what the particular crop was
bw = black and white conversion
S = if I did a sepia tone to the B/W

So, at any given time I could look at any file and quickly know what I did. I hope I'm not guilty of "too much info" here?? lol

Vinnie

[SandeeWig]

Originally Posted by auto-focus

..Removing 2 of the 3 channels?? - Just use the sliders to tweak your B/W

So, at any given time I could look at any file and quickly know what I did. I hope I'm not guilty of "too much info" here?? lol

Vinnie

Hey Vinnie,
No no, I appreciate you commenting on my statement. Sorry for the confusion. I'm okay playing with the channel mixer - I played with it quite a bit with this image, but could still use a bit LOTS more practice.

The statement I made above about "removing channels" was not relative to the Channel Mixer, but was related to the Channels tab that appears next to the Layers tab window (Layers, Channels, Paths). If I turn off 2 of the 3 colors, I find that usually one of the channels works best for a particular image; however, if I try to do a "save for web", it saves it in color and turns RGB back on. (hope I'm making sense here...)

Relative to that...when playing w/ the Channel Mixer, I'm finding it difficult to mimic the effects of turning off particular color channels by using the sliders. I've read that it's best to keep the totals to 100% (i.e. in the "red" channel of the mixer - which is 100% and green/blue=0% - if I decrease red by 5%, I have to add a total of 5% to the green and/or blue channels). Is this correct?

In doing so, I don't really see much difference in the image - at least not enough to be obvious. In reality, I'm just not very sure about what I'm doing w/ the mixer. I think my "theory" is there, but my "application" needs tons of work!