Issues with color management. It's driving me crazy...

[tonga]

Hi folks,

I'm having some issues with color rendition and management in my system. Let me give you the basic specs. I'm running Windows 7 and using a trial version of LR3, PS CS 5 and ACDSee Manager Pro v3. I have a Samsung SyncMaster 245B (not calibrated by hardware).

I understand that I should have my monitor calibrated by hardware to obtain the best results possible when working with images. However, before spending $100+ on a hardware calibration tool I want to make sure that the problems I'm having are not related to software issues. I'm assuming here that even when the monitor is not properly calibrated an image should look the same independently of which application is used to display it, assuming of course all the color management settings are the same across the applications. Am I right on this? Btw, I do all my amateur work for the purposes of displaying the photographs online, ie. no printing process involved (maybe in the future).

The problem I'm experiencing is that the images look rather pale, washed out when working in LR 3 both when viewing/editing the DNG and when viewing the final TIFF file. In contrast, when the same TIFF file is viewed in other applications (PS CS 5, ACDsee Manager Pro 3) the image looks much better with better colors and more vivid. The test file is a TIFF image with color profile RGB IEC61966-2.1 embedded in it (DNG processed with LR 3 and exported to TIFF).

When I open and view the image in LR 3 and Windows 7 Photo Viewer it looks the same in both applications. If I open the file in PS CS 5, ACDSee v3.1 and ACDsee Manager Pro 3 the image looks the same across these 3 applications as well. However, the color rendition of the image when viewed in LR 3 (or Windows 7 Photo Viewer) is completely different to what I get when I view the image in PS CS 5, ACDSee v3.1 and ACDsee Manager Pro 3.

I understand that ACDSee v3.1 doesn't have color management options thus I assume that it's either using the monitor profile or the color profile embedded in the file (RGB IEC61966-2.1).

I also understand that LR 3 doesn't offer the possibility to set up color management properties.

I have set up PS CS 5's working color space to ProPhoto RGB and in the color management policies I've chosen to preserve the embedded color profile. I'm also using the color proof feature of PS to emulate the color profile of my monitor. The proof conditions are as follow:

Device to simulate: the monitor profile (the same selected in Windows 7's settings)
Rendering intent: relative colorimetric
Preserve RGB numbers: off

As for the color management settings in ACDsee Manager Pro 3 I've set it up to use the embedded color profile when available otherwise, it should use the default profile (the monitor's profile, icc file). I'm also using the color proof feature. The monitor profile is the same as above while the device to simulate is the monitor as well. I can always change this of course and see the differences in color rendition for different devices but currently I'm trying the monitor's color profile.

Any ideas of what could be the source of this problem?

Thanks.

Gaston

[zona5101]

Originally Posted by tonga

. I'm assuming here that even when the monitor is not properly calibrated an image should look the same independently of which application is used to display it

this is an incorrect assumption. Different application on the same machine using the same monitor will/may render images differently.

[tonga]

Originally Posted by zona5101

this is an incorrect assumption. Different application on the same machine using the same monitor will render images differently.

Ok, forgot to add: assuming all the applications use the same color profiles and they all try to map that color profile to the monitor's profile.

[wulf]

Tidied up



Wulf

[teaking]

If I have read this correctly, you have CS5 to open your RAW file in Pro Photo, and you have your monitor profile selected for the display.

The problem I would assume you are having is with your choice of pro photo colour space and maybe overly complicated options, if you have things set correctly what you should have is your display profile which is your monitors profile, and then your working colour space, and finally your printers profile which you dont have so that doesnt matter.

Your working colour space for RGB should really be the same as your images RGB colour space for example sRGB, aRGB, Pro Photo etc but seen as RAW doesnt have one its probably best to have it tagged with the colour space you are going to be working in as If you preserve the images colour space your no longer working in Pro Photo your working in the images colour space.

When opening in other programs make sure they support your colour profile for the image and that the images have been tagged and have the correct colour profiles embedded if you chose to do that. Also be aware if you are displaying them on the web you would have to at some point export your images to an sRGB JPEG or TIFF or PNG file.

Out of interest when you export from CS5 as a JPEG with an sRGB profile does that display the same in all applications?

[OsmosisStudios]

Originally Posted by tonga

Ok, forgot to add: assuming all the applications use the same color profiles and they all try to map that color profile to the monitor's profile.

Nope, even then different applications will display things differently. Just open the same image in Firefox, Internet Explorer and Safari.

[sk66]

I'm guessing it's a colorspace issue. DNG previews are in Srgb (but the actual DNG is like a RAW file and has no colorspace). Tiffs are in whatever format was recorded (CMYK is common) LR uses ProPhoto...

In the end, when sorted there will be some differences between programs using same colorspace, but should be minor...

Welcome to digital!

[nswphotos]

Personally I think it's too many different programs reading and interpreting the information in there own way.The monitor will be consistant but the way windows 7 picture viewer looks at RAW will be like you say flat and colourless, I havn't used lightroom so cant comment , I just use Bridge then open in PS and yes it does get colour enriched in PS thats the program enhancing the image for finishing. If I were you I'd just stick to the Adobe programs and keep it simple.