Shadow from Fill-in Flash

[ttosifa]

My thoughts are slightly different from those above. First, this is not a shot for stock, for publication in National Geographic or Vanity Fair, or what have you. What is it? It is a shot taken at 10 am on a beautiful sunny day in LA that you were enjoying with your daughter (?). It's a shot to remind you of that moment. It is for your memory, not ours.

So what do the blown out parts of the picture remind you of? It was sunny! It was a beautiful day! In my opinion, the hedges on the right of the picture detract somewhat since I could have taken a similar picture here where we have had freakin' ice and snow for several days. Depending on what the rest of the background looked like, I might have moved right to get more of the beautiful sun in the background.

Look at some pro portraiture shots. In many cases, the pros use strobes to light up the backgrounds to purposely "make them pure white." Different from blowing them out, sure, but the effect is the same: separation the subject from the background. I like the blown highlights behind her, and think it adds to your picture of your daughter enjoying a bright sunny day.

As for the flash: The on-camera flash is naturally harsh because it is so small. The light does not wrap around her face in a pleasing manner. The light is straight-on, when you would prefer it coming from a different direction. Would you have gotten softer lighting by moving off camera and adjusting your shutter speed and aperture to underexpose the ambient and bring up your daughter to compensate? Maybe. Or just maybe your daughter would have just run off in the meantime to go play!

What I am trying to say is that not every image is meant to be a Pulitzer prize winner. You took a fine photo assuming it conveys the story you told when you posted it. It conveys sun. You can see your daughter (I do, however, think she is very slightly underexposed, but so what?) and she is the obvious focal point of the picture. Good work!

[Chip]

Originally Posted by zebthepilot

just to clarify what was said a bit...

when using an auto metered flash (ttl) adjusting f-stop won't make any difference as the camera will compensate for it. If using a manual flash, yes, your aperture will effect your flash while the shutter does not. So if you are wanting to tone down the flash a bit, lower your flash power (flash compensation or whatever your camera calls it). If you set it to -1 your camera will chose a flash power setting based on TTL metering then lower it by 1ev.

good luck

Thanks for the correction. I still get confused/mixed up with the differences bwtween manual and TTL.

[Jim Poor]

Originally Posted by kencaleno

I wouldn't worry too much about the shadow- In future you need to get down lower(on child's eye level) I've played a bit and come up with this:

I'm sorry, but this is just horrible. Even worse that you didn't provide details on how you came up with what you did, but it looks washed out and hazy. I think there should be a bit of discretion involved when editing others photos. I realize that we may all have our creative differences and that we can never like everything everyone else does, but by any objective measure this "enhancement" has ruined the original photo from a technical standpoint.

Now, on to the original question. The shadow doesn't really bother me all that much, but a reflector could have gotten rid of it if you wanted to.

I would have scooted the girl to her left and / or the camera to the photographer's left to position her in front of the hedge completely for a more pleasing background.

[newPerspective]

Thank you all, this is like a mini-tutorial for me. How I wish I was at home experimenting with my camera and flash right now, instead of being *here* . Sigh!

Originally Posted by Chip

...... Now, with a TTL flash (and this part is still a bit of a mystery to me), the flash will do its best to expose your subject properly. But, what it does automatically for exposure may not be what you're after. So, if the camera selects flash output that's too dominant (too strong for the particular shot), you can compensate for this by turning down the flash's power, which is technically called "flash compensation." I'm sure there's a way to do this on your camera. Or as another potential way of having less flash light in the picture, you could use a smaller aperture (higher f #).

And finally, I guess with practice and looking at your LCD with color cast in mind, you might be able to see if the color is what you want.

Practicing inside on a stuffed animal, etc has helped me a good bit.

Chip, Thank you very much. I realy appreciate you taking the time to explain in detail. Now I have a better understanding for it. The more I practice I think the better I'll get at it. I do like the Teddy Bear suggestion very much, I dont have to plead with my daughter and I can move and reposition as many times as I'd like .

Originally Posted by zebthepilot

..... So if you are wanting to tone down the flash a bit, lower your flash power (flash compensation or whatever your camera calls it). If you set it to -1 your camera will chose a flash power setting based on TTL metering then lower it by 1ev.

As to the blue cast... This is a WB issue. The camera is having to decide what color temperature to chose and in your case picked something between flash, daylight and shade. Most camera flashes are temped close to daylight but aren't quite there. Which is why your camera will have a flash WB. Your camera chose to set the WB between flash and shade (probably) and thus where the flash is strongest you get a touch of blue. .....

zebthepilot, thanks a bunch for further clarification. Its all making sense now. Very useful information, cant wait to implement it.

Originally Posted by ttosifa

.....What I am trying to say is that not every image is meant to be a Pulitzer prize winner. You took a fine photo assuming it conveys the story you told when you posted it. It conveys sun. You can see your daughter (I do, however, think she is very slightly underexposed, but so what?) and she is the obvious focal point of the picture. Good work!

ttosifa, thank you for your kind words and justifying my shot. And thank you for your advice. The result I have here is due to lack of knowledge. And now with so many great responses and advice, I know what to do next time I'm in a similar situation. I'll be better able to tackle the shot since I now understand the techique for how the in-camera flash, external flash, TTL, fStop control, White Balance, refelctors, ev compenstation all relate to each other and YET be able retian the mood of shot.

Originally Posted by Jim Poor

.. I think there should be a bit of discretion involved when editing others photos. I realize that we may all have our creative differences and that we can never like everything everyone else does, but by any objective measure this "enhancement" has ruined the original photo from a technical standpoint.

LOL! Not sure if I'd have the guts to say that.

Originally Posted by Jim Poor

.. but a reflector could have gotten rid of it if you wanted to.

I would have scooted the girl to her left and / or the camera to the photographer's left to position her in front of the hedge completely for a more pleasing background.

Thank you for the suggestion. It will help me the next time.

[candleman]

i havn't read everything above, but heres my take.

this is how I do it...

you SHOULD be able to set the amount of TTL fill flash,
it can mess with exposure a little depending what colour you're metering off, but just use the exposure compensation to fix it. ( i work from Apreture priority mainly)

basically (the D80) has increments of flash output from +1 to -3
+1 will try to brighten the sunbect by pumping out more light
-3 will make it pump out less light..

just experiment in the -2 and -3 areas and you should be on the reoad to success.

[newPerspective]

Originally Posted by candleman

you SHOULD be able to set the amount of TTL fill flash,
it can mess with exposure a little depending what colour you're metering off, but just use the exposure compensation to fix it. ( i work from Apreture priority mainly).......
just experiment in the -2 and -3 areas and you should be on the reoad to success.

Thank you mate. I'm going to start looking into the TTL flash setting. Will be stepping into unknown territories, hopefully it'll turn out fine when I start experimenting.

[Austin_HXC]

Originally Posted by villafane928

i thought it was a nice shot...i just thought a little cropping, a little rotation, some softening and a little sharpening on the eyes and a vignette for the blown area. i came up with this



hope you dont mind me playing with it.

I like this crop, but I think that the effect is a little too strong.
Maybe a little toned down version of this effect would make it perfect.