Self portrait - Lighting query

[kuul13]

Guys

I am practicing single lighting portrait with my new umbrella and strobe. I had a white backdrop and I had my umbrella at 45 degree and higher than the camera. Camera was on the tripod and in manual mode. My strobe triggers from the popup flash of Nikon D80. What ever I do I get that annoying shadow around my face, ears.. I tried placing the strobe behind my camera to throw light straight but still couldn't get rid of the shadow. I tried standing around 6 feet away from the backdrop, still the results were same. Strobe was at 1/64.

Here is the example (with no editing):



Any idea on how can I avoid shadow using single light? I am practicing this because I have a group/family portrait on Saturday. And I want to setup something that surely give better results in terms of lighting. Please HELP!

EXIF:
Camera NIKON CORPORATION
Model NIKON D80
ISO 400
Exposure 1/60 sec
Aperture 9.5
Focal Length 50mm
Flash Used true
White Balance 0

[Ginger Pixie]

Your pop up flash is the problem.

You would get better results putting your flashgun on your camera and bouncing it off the ceiling to the side.

If you brought your aperture down, you would have less detail in your background.

From a composition point of view, I would zoom in for a headshot, rather than lopping off your hands / arms.

Hope that helps a little

[Ginger Pixie]

Originally Posted by ccting

LOL.. just cover the pop up flash with thick tissue

Not sure how my post made you laugh. I think he will have better results bouncing the flash. But you carry on with your kleenex if it makes you happy.

[ccting]

my bad sry - I laugh because i steal ur knowledge.

Dear kull13, i have posted my suggestion to your profile page. Try and tell me how it works.

Believe in yourself - you can do it regardless the challenges.

[agram80]

Step Away from the back drop! and open up your aperture.

[zona5101]

As previously mentioned, the shadow on the background is a function of distance. You simply need to move farther away from the BG. The contrast in the shadow under your chin is a function of subject to flash distance and the particular light modifier. You can tell from the angle of the shadow that it is from the off camera flash, not the pop up. In order to reduce that shadow you need to move the light and umbrella closer. For your portrait that would work, however you say you are going to have a group shot, moving closer will not be a good recommendation as you need nice even lighting across the group. Using your current light position on a group might also cause shadows from one individual to land on his neighbor and you really want to avoid that. For the group shot and a single light, I would place the light at or behind the camera position, higher than the camera and pointed downward. This will give you a bit flatter lighting more towards a butterfly or loop lighting and should result in nice even lighting across the group. (It would also avoid casting a shadow on the background).
Addl. note: moving your subjects away from the BG will also mean there will be less light falling on the BG so expect it to go gray

[kuul13]

Originally Posted by Ginger Pixie

Your pop up flash is the problem.

You would get better results putting your flashgun on your camera and bouncing it off the ceiling to the side.

If you brought your aperture down, you would have less detail in your background.

From a composition point of view, I would zoom in for a headshot, rather than lopping off your hands / arms.

Hope that helps a little

As mentioned by Bruce, shadow is definitely caused by my strobe on right. I will be using on camera flash during my random party shots by bouncing it off the ceiling or walls. But for group portraits I have to use off-camera strobe.

I can try with a lower aperture but I don't know if that will work great with group shots. But I really appreciate your comment and will try aperture thing for sure.

Originally Posted by ccting

my bad sry - I laugh because i steal ur knowledge.

Dear kull13, i have posted my suggestion to your profile page. Try and tell me how it works.

Believe in yourself - you can do it regardless the challenges.

Thanks ccting, I did respond to you on profile page. I will try it tonight and let you know.

Originally Posted by agram80

Step Away from the back drop! and open up your aperture.

I tried with almost 2 meter back from the BG but still got the shadow. But I didn't try opening the aperture. I guess ideal would be 4.5 or something to get everyone when I go for group shots. Right?

[kuul13]

Originally Posted by zona5101

As previously mentioned, the shadow on the background is a function of distance. You simply need to move farther away from the BG. The contrast in the shadow under your chin is a function of subject to flash distance and the particular light modifier. You can tell from the angle of the shadow that it is from the off camera flash, not the pop up. In order to reduce that shadow you need to move the light and umbrella closer. For your portrait that would work, however you say you are going to have a group shot, moving closer will not be a good recommendation as you need nice even lighting across the group. Using your current light position on a group might also cause shadows from one individual to land on his neighbor and you really want to avoid that. For the group shot and a single light, I would place the light at or behind the camera position, higher than the camera and pointed downward. This will give you a bit flatter lighting more towards a butterfly or loop lighting and should result in nice even lighting across the group. (It would also avoid casting a shadow on the background).
Addl. note: moving your subjects away from the BG will also mean there will be less light falling on the BG so expect it to go gray

Firstly, Bruce, thank you so much for responding to all my queries. I am glad that you guys are there to help. Well, I tried different distances.. maximum that I tried yesterday night was 6ft (almost 2meter) but it didn't work either. I am not sure if I will get that much space in location tomorrow . I also tried to put the light behind the camera but pointed at 45 degree.. may be I should go lower than that.. when you say "pointed downward" - does that mean point umbrella/strobe to subjects leg? What should be the ideal distance between the subject and the camera if I am shooting with 18-135mm lens? and where should I place the light when I move it behind the camera? How do you work with space constraints on location with lighting? I know, I am asking too many questions but I want to really make this shoot better than previous

Note: I have more lights but, as you guys mentioned before that I won't gain anything additional with my other light sources - another umbrella (no strobe) - CFL, I also have some more clamp lights.

[zona5101]

I am not sure I can work out all the details over the internet but I'll giver 'er a go.
So when you had the flash at the camera position 6 meters away and were still getting shadows, first thing I think of is your power on the OFC wasn't high enough. So it may seem counter intuitive but we want more light so we can stop the lens down more (ie to go from f4 towards f8). Why? Inverse square law, we are forcing the light to fall off faster. It introduces more depth of field so an in-focus background maybe the consequence, especially if you are limited in how far away you can get the subject from the background.

Pointed down so you get nice coverage...so ya, at the feet or waistline would be fine.
Positioned directly behind you and the camera...or if space is a constraint then slightly off the either side. The light will have no problem wrapping around you or at least it shouldn't unless you and the subjects are real close - then go to plan B and move the light off to either shoulder. The more you rotate that light to the right or left, the more the shadow will be placed to the left or right. We want it to go more straight down to avoid falling on the next person.

[kuul13]

Originally Posted by zona5101

I am not sure I can work out all the details over the internet but I'll giver 'er a go.
So when you had the flash at the camera position 6 meters away and were still getting shadows, first thing I think of is your power on the OFC wasn't high enough. So it may seem counter intuitive but we want more light so we can stop the lens down more (ie to go from f4 towards f8). Why? Inverse square law, we are forcing the light to fall off faster. It introduces more depth of field so an in-focus background maybe the consequence, especially if you are limited in how far away you can get the subject from the background.

Pointed down so you get nice coverage...so ya, at the feet or waistline would be fine.
Positioned directly behind you and the camera...or if space is a constraint then slightly off the either side. The light will have no problem wrapping around you or at least it shouldn't unless you and the subjects are real close - then go to plan B and move the light off to either shoulder. The more you rotate that light to the right or left, the more the shadow will be placed to the left or right. We want it to go more straight down to avoid falling on the next person.

Thanks again Bruce, tonight I will try with different aperture and will bumping ISO help? I will try that too. I will also try to give a lower angle to my light and see how it works. the strobe works through umbrella, does bouncing off umbrella help by any way?