Follow up to Which Lens Should I Use...

[Chippee]

So I submitted a thread last week asking which lens I should use for photographing my grandkids and go some great tips. First mistake... forgot my camera bag with the lens/filers/everything else I carry in it. I was such a nervous wreck I couldn't even think straight. Anywho, took lots of photos and I was too nervous to download them until today. UGH!!! I just don't have the knack for people photography. I am submitting one that might have potential. I didn't notice until just now that the first girl has a hair tie around her wrist and her friggin cell phone in her hand... WTF???? I was so pissed. I think I could clone out the hair tie but not sure about the cell phone. Any ideas???? Also, I would really appreciate any critique on the photo and what I could have done better. I'm pretty thick skinned so feel free to be honest. I feel like it's flat. Thanks in advance for your help.



Exif data
Camera Nikon D90
Exposure 0.025 sec (1/40)
Aperture f/5.6
Focal Length 48 mm
Focal Length 47.6 mm
ISO Speed 200
Exposure Bias 0 EV
Flash No Flash

[IABoomer]

Copied your EXIF from the Flickr image, as per the rules for the critique forum.

Camera Nikon D90
Exposure 0.025 sec (1/40)
Aperture f/5.6
Focal Length 48 mm
Focal Length 47.6 mm
ISO Speed 200
Exposure Bias 0 EV
Flash No Flash

I'm guessing this was either your 18-55 or 18-105 VR lens, in which case, you might have been able to zoom out a little more (30-35mm), move in a bit closer which would blur out the background a bit more and cropped in more on the torsos and involved less leg, which would also probably hide your hair tie/cell phone.

I think the light looks good. It's even with little harsh shadowing on the faces. The focus looks nice and clean. You've got good detail to them. When it comes down to it, I wouldn't necessarily fret about the phone. It's not like it looks unnatural. You're probably so used to seeing her with it, it didn't even stand out to you when framing the shot.

[Chippee]

Originally Posted by IABoomer

Copied your EXIF from the Flickr image, as per the rules for the critique forum.

Camera Nikon D90
Exposure 0.025 sec (1/40)
Aperture f/5.6
Focal Length 48 mm
Focal Length 47.6 mm
ISO Speed 200
Exposure Bias 0 EV
Flash No Flash

I'm guessing this was either your 18-55 or 18-105 VR lens, in which case, you might have been able to zoom out a little more (30-35mm), move in a bit closer which would blur out the background a bit more and cropped in more on the torsos and involved less leg, which would also probably hide your hair tie/cell phone.

I think the light looks good. It's even with little harsh shadowing on the faces. The focus looks nice and clean. You've got good detail to them. When it comes down to it, I wouldn't necessarily fret about the phone. It's not like it looks unnatural. You're probably so used to seeing her with it, it didn't even stand out to you when framing the shot.

Thanks Boomer,

It occurred to me on the way home from work that I left it out. Yes, it was my 18-105. I agree I should have moved in a bit. Hindsight... The only reason I am fretting about the hair tie/cell phone is because I want to frame this on a canvas wrap for their parents for christmas. I think it would be tacky with the offending hair tie/cell phone

[jml79]

Originally Posted by IABoomer

Copied your EXIF from the Flickr image, as per the rules for the critique forum.

Camera Nikon D90
Exposure 0.025 sec (1/40)
Aperture f/5.6
Focal Length 48 mm
Focal Length 47.6 mm
ISO Speed 200
Exposure Bias 0 EV
Flash No Flash

I'm guessing this was either your 18-55 or 18-105 VR lens, in which case, you might have been able to zoom out a little more (30-35mm), move in a bit closer which would blur out the background a bit more and cropped in more on the torsos and involved less leg, which would also probably hide your hair tie/cell phone.

I think the light looks good. It's even with little harsh shadowing on the faces. The focus looks nice and clean. You've got good detail to them. When it comes down to it, I wouldn't necessarily fret about the phone. It's not like it looks unnatural. You're probably so used to seeing her with it, it didn't even stand out to you when framing the shot.

Please help I don't understand this. If I wanted more bokeh I would have either opened the aperture or zoomed in and stepped back, completely the opposite of what you suggest. Does what your suggesting work by getting inside of the hyperfocal distance or something I haven't quite mastered yet?

@Chippee, Great shot. I'm glad it worked out, I remember how nervous you were. It's a shame you forgot your bag. Did you get a chance to get some individual portraits as well?

[IABoomer]

By moving in closer, she'd be able to shorten the focal distance, which would throw the background further out of focus. Because the kids are close to the trees, moving farther back and shooting with more zoom would actually cause a compression that brings the background closer.

Let's say for the sake of argument that she's shooting 5 feet from the kids, and the trees are another 5 feet behind them. Her focal distance is set to 5 feet to get the kids in focus, and with the aperture being what it is, the trees blur out some.

Now, let's say she zooms out which fills less of the frame. Now, she moves to within 2 feet of the kids. She re-focuses on the kids at 2 feet instead of 5 feet. Now, because our focal distance is smaller, the trees will be more out of focus.

If we go the other way and zoom farther out, maybe we're now shooting from 15 feet from the kids, and when we focus on them at 15 feet, the trees are still relatively close to the kids, so they end up not as blurred.

The most common place I see hyperfocal distance used is in landscape shooting where you're trying to get as much stuff in focus as possible, so you find a distance where everything from that point back to infinity is in good focus.

If I've pooched any of the above up, someone please correct me.

[Chippee]

Originally Posted by jml79

@Chippee, Great shot. I'm glad it worked out, I remember how nervous you were. It's a shame you forgot your bag. Did you get a chance to get some individual portraits as well?

Thank you jml.... Yeah, I was so upset about the bag. Oh well, next time I will pack the car the night before. I only got two individual shots. The other three kids didn't really cooperate. They are in my photostream in flickr if you care to take a peek. They aren't that great though as the sun was in their face. I really need to keep practicing with people shots!

[MrJones]

I actually don't mind the hair band or the cellphone. that's who she is these days and you want to capture personalities too. ok, maybe the cell is a bit in the way but the hair band? don't touch it, it's right in place.
the problem you have here is a focus problem. you're using an open aperture of f/5.6 and photographing a group of people with great distance between the first and last. you should have closed your aperture as much as you can to get all five of them nice and sharp (the problem is really apparent on the first girl with the cell phone).
you won't be able to get a nice bokeh at that location since the trees are right behind the group. either place them far from the trees or move the trees back, I'm guessing the first option is easier
other than that I would either include all their feet or crop it tighter at the waist.

[jml79]

Originally Posted by IABoomer

By moving in closer, she'd be able to shorten the focal distance, which would throw the background further out of focus. Because the kids are close to the trees, moving farther back and shooting with more zoom would actually cause a compression that brings the background closer.

Let's say for the sake of argument that she's shooting 5 feet from the kids, and the trees are another 5 feet behind them. Her focal distance is set to 5 feet to get the kids in focus, and with the aperture being what it is, the trees blur out some.

Now, let's say she zooms out which fills less of the frame. Now, she moves to within 2 feet of the kids. She re-focuses on the kids at 2 feet instead of 5 feet. Now, because our focal distance is smaller, the trees will be more out of focus.

If we go the other way and zoom farther out, maybe we're now shooting from 15 feet from the kids, and when we focus on them at 15 feet, the trees are still relatively close to the kids, so they end up not as blurred.

The most common place I see hyperfocal distance used is in landscape shooting where you're trying to get as much stuff in focus as possible, so you find a distance where everything from that point back to infinity is in good focus.

If I've pooched any of the above up, someone please correct me.

OK, I understand the concept you are thinking about now. I am not sure how well it will work out by I am going to try it to see if I can add it to my bag of tools. My only concern with giong wider on this shot to bring the focal plane in closer is that it will really change the angle of view, possibly distorting the people closer to the camera. Do you understnd what I mean? There is a term for it but my first coffee hasn't kicked in yet.

[SusanH1970]

Originally Posted by MrJones

I actually don't mind the hair band or the cellphone. that's who she is these days and you want to capture personalities too. ok, maybe the cell is a bit in the way but the hair band? don't touch it, it's right in place.
the problem you have here is a focus problem. you're using an open aperture of f/5.6 and photographing a group of people with great distance between the first and last. you should have closed your aperture as much as you can to get all five of them nice and sharp (the problem is really apparent on the first girl with the cell phone).
you won't be able to get a nice bokeh at that location since the trees are right behind the group. either place them far from the trees or move the trees back, I'm guessing the first option is easier
other than that I would either include all their feet or crop it tighter at the waist.

I agree with this. The small version looks good, but I viewed the large version on Flickr, and the first two girls on the left are really soft, the guy in the middle is a little soft, and the last two kids on the right are a little sharper. I would have gone with an aperture of at least f/8 for a group like this all on different planes, and as MrJones said, moved them further away from the trees (lol at moving the trees back). Some of the softness might be due to a bit of camera shake as well, that shutter speed is pretty slow. You could have bumped your ISO and gotten a faster shutter speed.

If the cell phone bothers you that much, you could easily clone it out. Just zoom way, way in and use a fairly small brush.

Skin tones/WB look really good, just one more nitpick - the whites on the first girl's shirt are blown out.

Other than that, it's a cute photo, even if they are Giants fans.

[edbayani]

looks good but they are right, a bit soft but can be sharpened a bit. the hair tie and the phone can be erased by the rubber stamp.