Is this the better portrait?

[goldt3]

Yesterday I posted a portrait of my daughter for critique. It was my favorite from the set I had taken of her. Now, after considering all the comments, I wonder if I am looking at this from the wrong prespective.

This other photo seems to more closely match what is universally accepted as good portraiture. Is this one better than the fist? Why? Why not?

Thank you for taking time to help me understand this art that I have become fascinated with!



(Just a note: I've been thinking a reflector could have prevented her face from being so dark, but I didn't have one and have never used one. Any hints on how I could have used one in this situation are appreciated. ie. where to place? Hold at angle? I'm not sure. lol)

The previous photo, in case you missed it:
http://digital-photography-school.co...d-i-think.html

[autofocus]

I'll start by saying it's at least better than yesterday's image where all you saw was the back of her head and her outfit. SK66 made some very key comments on that one by saying it's OK to shoot shots like that, but need to see more of what she's doing to connect to it. Kind of the same problem with today's image...you don't know what she's doing, her eyes closed or looking down, once again you cannot connect well to the subject. The crop is very tight, both arms clipped off near the shoulders, and some might take exception to the head crop, but that doesn't bother me as much as the other things.
Now reflectors: can be anything that bounces light back on the subject such as a mirror, white poster board, cardboard covered with tinfoil, or a purchased one that could have multiple functions. Like a strobe, you can control the amount and the angle of the reflected light usually used to fill in the shadow areas. Some of the light off the items mentioned above can be very harsh, so better to err in favor of less than more until you get the feel of using one.

Vinnie

[Indigo November]

Vinnie put it quite nicely. I'd really like to see her eyes. Keep at it!

As for reflectors: If you are short on cash you can make one very easily, and if you aren't short on $$ you should still make you own, it's very fun!! Tin foil is good, but sometimes too bright, making the subject squint.
The shiny inner wrappers of chocolate bars work quite well.
Best to remove them immediately after buying the chocolate, that way they stay fairly clean.
Then, glue them to something, whatever you want. Poster board, cardboard, sheet of vinyl, plexiglass, whatever suits you.
Sometimes you can find chocolate with gold colored wrappers, those are fun.
Just about anything that reflects can be made into a reflector!

Also, I wanted to than you for accepting critique from us.
You wouldn't believe how many people post in the critique section, and then whine and pout and get defensive when they get critique.
You're one of few who accept it and learn from it.

[SusanH1970]

Originally Posted by artofindigo

The shiny inner wrappers of chocolate bars work quite well.
Best to remove them immediately after buying the chocolate, that way they stay fairly clean.

Agreed with Vinnie's CC and your comments, Indigo.

However, please feel free to send the chocolate to me so it doesn't go bad.

That is all.

[goldt3]

Hey, I KNOW I'm new! lol I want to be good, and I love the time I spend trying. Why not accept that sometimes others have more experience than you do, huh?

Anyways, thank you for allowing me to pull from your (group) knowledge and keep asking what might seem like "dumb" questions. I plan to keep trying... and keep asking... until I start getting it right.

But for now... It's BACK OUTSIDE, with the camera! *yeah!* lol

Thank you!

[Niresangwa]

I think there are a few things to consider with these two shots having looked at both of them, and also the set on flickr.

It's a good thing to be thinking about your lighting, but i'd probably urge you to take a step back in the process before worrying about reflectors.

The first question that you should ask yourself is what you're trying to do with these pictures? Once you have this established, you can move onto the next part which would be how do i frame up the shot to convey that?

Personally, I don't agree with other critiques that seeing her eyes is the deciding factor in why these shots don't particularly work. its certainly important, but it doesnt make or break an image.

What I'm getting at is there is no context in the series of shots. You briefly mentioned that she was practicing for a dance recital. However, had you not mentioned that there really is no way of knowing it. So how can you convey this?... because without that context its just a 'snap shot'. I have a feeling that's not what you're trying to achieve.

So before you start stressing about lighting, look at your composition. Is there a reason that they're all so tight? If there was a reason, what was it? It's incredibly difficult to highlight motion when she's essentially imprisoned in the frame! Take a few steps backwards and open up your field a little. At the very least it gives you many more options when deciding on a final crop.

Equipment may be limiting you when it comes to controlling light and DoF here, but it certainly doesnt prevent you from working on your composition and how your thoughts flow when constructing the shot...

Trying to get a candid portrait of your daughter while dancing in the yard is actually going to be pretty challenging. Much more difficult to achieve than the usual posed portrait where the kid is sitting still, and you can get them in front of a non-distracting background etc etc.. but its that challenge that would lead to a great image, and not just some bog-standard shot... so kudos for not only trying it, but for taking advice on how to do it better..

In short, think over what you're attempting to do and how you can make it work. 10 seconds of thought as you breeze through a few simple questions in your head can make a huge difference!

[goldt3]

I thought a lot about what you said.

I keep reading about photographers who are trying to compose within the frame, and not crop much if at all. I respect that, but it is easier said than done. As I try to come in closer rather than shoot wide and crop I see that I have been over thinking it at ruining the photo. I like how you said it looks like she's trapped in the frame. That explains what youare saying very well. so, In the future I suppose trying to come in close will be important but a bit more thought about not imprisoning the subject could prevent me from taking it too far.

Thank you for taking the time to look at my photo's (even on flickr) and give constructive critique!

[autofocus]

Originally Posted by goldt3

I thought a lot about what you said.

I keep reading about photographers who are trying to compose within the frame, and not crop much if at all. I respect that, but it is easier said than done. As I try to come in closer rather than shoot wide and crop I see that I have been over thinking it at ruining the photo. I like how you said it looks like she's trapped in the frame. That explains what youare saying very well. so, In the future I suppose trying to come in close will be important but a bit more thought about not imprisoning the subject could prevent me from taking it too far.

Thank you for taking the time to look at my photo's (even on flickr) and give constructive critique!

Another thing to consider with tight cropped photos is should you want to make an 8x10 or 11x14 enlargement you may find it difficult, or impossible because of the native aspect ratio of your camera (most are 2x3). I think it's best to give yourself a little "headroom" on your images for that very contingency. I also feel that you often can make some very nice additional images from the original by cropping several ways

Vinnie

[Niresangwa]

Originally Posted by auto-focus

I also feel that you often can make some very nice additional images from the original by cropping several ways

This!

Some of my favourite shots are crops that are only partial pieces of the original framing.

[autofocus]

Originally Posted by Niresangwa

This!

Some of my favourite shots are crops that are only partial pieces of the original framing.

Yeah, mine also. I do all the editing for my wife's photography business and very often I'll get 4 or 5 varients out of one image...more for the customer to buy. haha
Something that's worth mentioning here is if folks are going to do this, it's always best to shoot at the highest resolution your camera is capable of...it will yield the best crops, and memory is cheap, so why not shoot at the best setting