Manual mode?

[johnske]

I currently shoot almost exclusively using aperture priority, only occasionally using shutter priority – both of which are semi-automatic modes.

A friend, a photojournalist on the local paper, keeps insisting that I should shoot manually as “you’ll never get to know your camera properly unless you do, all you’re learning about now is composition … use manual, take a photo, review it on your LCD screen, if it’s not right make adjustments and do it again till you get it right”.

His other advice was to set the ISO as low as possible, 100-200, or 400 for bad light, but never more than about 2000 for the very worst case scenarios – and also “sell those zoom lenses and invest in some very fast primes”. However, to my mind he is in a privileged position with his paper paying for his $7000 Nikon body and all the expensive lenses he needs/wants.

My argument was that with 20 years as a full-time professional photographer behind him, that’s ok for him to say but until I get that sort of experience I’ll choose the single parameter I want to control and just let the cameras internal computer do the rest of the calculations (shutter speed, ISO, WB) automatically for me (just to be on the safe side I auto-bracket everything).

Anyway, ran into him in town last week when I was doing a little street photography. First thing he did was ask what mode I was using, grabbed my camera and said “thought so, bloody aperture priority again” flicked the knob round to manual and said “there, that’s what you should be shooting – get used to it”.

“Ok”, I said, “it’s on manual, so what now?”
“What ISO are you using?” He replied
“100”
glancing quickly around, he said “Right, take a photo of that building over there, try f5.6, 1/250sec, EV=0”.

Did that and he asked to see the result, he looked and said “See? Perfect!” (and it was).

For me, there is one big problem with this approach – I never check – I have gotten used to the camera making some decisions for me and know that any shot I take will turn out either ok or just need a little PP tweaking.

This problem was driven home to me a few minutes later – I was headed up to a local cathedral when I ran into him and carried on up to there when he left – completely forgetting (until I got home and checked) that my camera was still set on manual and at the settings he’d given me! This was not too bad though, I was able to use photoshop to salvage the outside shots of the cathedral, but at 100 ISO and 1/250sec, the shots of the rays of light streaming through the stained glass windows into a gloomy cathedral were completely unusable.
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Anyway, today I decided to investigate the manual mode further at home and, to my surprise, I found that “manual” on a DSLR is also essentially a semi-automatic mode!

Let me explain, in the viewfinder I have shutter speed and aperture settings displayed in the middle of a row at the bottom of the viewfinder, to the right of that is the focus indicator and the EV compensation is shown to the right of that again.

The EV compensation is shown in the form –1.7 or +0.3 etc. – this figure is calculated by the cameras internal computer as being the deviation away from the ‘ideal’ of 0.0 EV compensation.

So, for –1.7 (underexposed) I just turn the E-dial to the left until it shows 0.0 and take the shot.

If I want to give priority to the aperture setting I’m using, turning the E-dial to the left reduces the shutter speed, conversely if I want to give priority to the shutter setting I’m using, I press the Av button and (again) turn the E-dial to the left which, in this case, opens the aperture.

But, apart from not being able to use auto ISO when in manual mode, this is basically the same as using the aperture and shutter priority modes (respectively)! The camera's still telling me what I need to do ...

So what is the big deal about using the manual mode? It just seems to be more an “EV priority” mode.

The only real advantage I can see is being able to use the Av button to switch between an aperture or shutter priority mode very very quickly.

[BigFuzzy]

I think a short answer is that even if you use your camera in manual mode the way you describe in the end is that you don't understand the "why" of any of it.

And then, you're still relying on the camera to tell you what's a proper exposure. You're still counting on the camera to be right when it's giving you those values. What if you walk into a scene and think "I want to capture this scenen with the main light being over exposed".. if you rely on your camera to figure it out it's likely going to take you a while to get it right the way you want it. If you understood all the settings (which M forces you to do) you are in full control.. and that is the ultimate goal in my opinion.

Still still shoot mostly in AV because of my style of shooting, however I know how to go straight into manual when I know AV won't get me what I'm looking for.

Does any of that make sense?

[johnske]

I think I have a reasonably good understanding of the "why" of it. What I don't have is the experience/ability to 'read' all the required settings at a glance as he did. I suspect that he got used to doing this during his SLR 35mm film days, but that's in the past and I doubt that he can analyse all this as fast as the computer in a DSLR camera can.

PS if I want to overexpose in aperture priority mode, a press of the Av button and a turn of the E-dial allows exactly the same thing as I can do in manual mode - the EV compensation is altered. The EV compensation reading is only an in-camera light meter reading after all.

[autofocus]

What Al (BF) is saying above is correct. Remember, the meter in your camera will always attempt to average all the light it sees in order to give you what it thinks is the proper exposure settings. And in certain lighting scenarios an average metering will give you a very average under, or overexposed shot. Basically, you first have to be able to "read" the light, and understand what impact it will have on your exposure, and use your brain as opposed to the camera's brain to compensate for those conditions. Manual allows you to do that..it puts all those fine tuning options in your hands and takes the decision away from the camera. A classic example would be while shooting a strong backlit subject..if you let the camera figure out the exposure by reading all that light you almost always wind up with an underexposed subject.

[autofocus]

PS if I want to overexpose in aperture priority mode, a press of the Av button and a turn of the E-dial allows exactly the same thing as I can do in manual mode - the EV compensation is altered.

I kind of think that you're only complicating things by doing it this way when it all can be simply done in manual. Let's say you want to add 2/3 stop of EV while in aperture mode...you have to take the camera away from your face, press the EV button, and make that adjustment. Why do that when you can get the same result in manual mode by looking through the viewfinder and up-ticking your exposure by 2/3 quickly, and grabbing the shot. This also eliminates the chance of forgetting your previous EV settings when taking subsequent shots that may be ruined by prior EV settings. It's almost like you are shooting in manual anyway, so why not do it?

[BigFuzzy]

Originally Posted by johnske

I think I have a reasonably good understanding of the "why" of it. What I don't have is the experience/ability to 'read' all the required settings at a glance as he did. I suspect that he got used to doing this during his SLR 35mm film days, but that's in the past and I doubt that he can analyse all this as fast as the computer in a DSLR camera can.

I bet he can do it better than the computer if the intended result is not metered for "grey" as the computer tends to do (as Vince described above).

And I'd bet he (or anyone who's really familiar with M settings) can do it quicker than you and will always be able to do so if you only ever rely on the computer and make adjustments (either in-camera or in PP) after the fact. Sometimes, time is of the essence. Are you going to risk missing that "moment" because you've had to take 2-10 extra shots to correct for that the computer did? If so fine as in the end there's no right or wrong to this argument I feel... it's down to an issue of how much you want to rely on that little chip or your brain and how much control you wish to have (or give up).

EDIT: and +1 to Vince's second post.

[johnske]

Originally Posted by autofocus

I kind of think that you're only complicating things by doing it this way when it all can be simply done in manual. Let's say you want to add 2/3 stop of EV while in aperture mode...you have to take the camera away from your face, press the EV button, and make that adjustment. Why do that when you can get the same result in manual mode by looking through the viewfinder and up-ticking your exposure by 2/3 quickly, and grabbing the shot. This also eliminates the chance of forgetting your previous EV settings when taking subsequent shots that may be ruined by prior EV settings. It's almost like you are shooting in manual anyway, so why not do it?

No, you're incorrect, it's exactly as I described, I don't have to take the camera away from my face to press any EV button, on the Pentax there is an 'Av' button on top which - in aperture priority mode - allows you to switch between adjust aperture via the E-dial or, adjust the EV setting via the E-dial after the Av button is pressed and - as you said yourself "It's almost like you are shooting in manual anyway, so why not do it?" (i.e. the way I just described - that part's just like manual)

[conor5150]

I shoot nearly always in M mode , I would say I subscribe to the Bryan Peterson way of thinking and still will read Understanding Exposure for tips , one of the hardest and I'll say most satisfying things was learning the why of it all.

[autofocus]

Originally Posted by johnske

No, you're incorrect, it's exactly as I described, I don't have to take the camera away from my face to press any EV button, on the Pentax there is an 'Av' button on top which - in aperture priority mode - allows you to switch between adjust aperture via the E-dial or, adjust the EV setting via the E-dial after the Av button is pressed and - as you said yourself "It's almost like you are shooting in manual anyway, so why not do it?" (i.e. the way I just described - that part's just like manual)

...fine John, it's your prerogative to shoot the way you want. Most would just opt to shoot in manual mode. And I'm not sure if you are trying to make an argument that your method is as good, or better than shooting in manual mode. If so, you will never convince me that this method is better, quicker, or easier than just shooting in manual. You had the "pro" tell you to learn to shoot in manual mode, and I would say that 90% of the people here on DPS would also say the same thing, but if your method is what you prefer, no one is going to say don't do it.

[Sloseph]

Id always say just shoot manual, it’s quicker (at least it is on most cameras) and for me feels a lot more satisfying

I don't like the idea of the camera working it out for me, the camera can logically work out so much but when it come to personal preference and what your actually looking for out of the shot, the camera has no idea

It’s a steep learning curve going manual but if you already have a good idea of aperture then give it a go, you might miss a few shots but in the end you will capture more