Question on single Speedlight off camera

[Axis]

Hello all,
I'm very new to photography and have a Canon eos 40D with a single 580ex II. I've scoured the two manuals and have been searching the net and have only gotten myself confused.
Is there a way to use the 580 off camera by using the built in flash to trigger it? The manual only talks about multiple speedlights, and everywhere I look online I'm finding people mentioning trigger units and pocket wizards and a bunch of other stuff that went right over my head.
A couple weeks ago I read an article ( I thought it was a post here at DPS but for the life of me I can find it again) where someone was describing how they turned down the built in camera flash so it didn't light the subject, but used it to trigger the off camera speedlight. Is this possible on the 40D with the 580ex, and if so is there any chance someone would be willing to lead a newbie through the procedure?
If this isn't possible, what is the simplest way to use a single off camera flash?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[thisbejonas]

I use pocket wizards to trigger off camera flashes myself but that is kinda the expensive way to do it. Ebay has some cheaper triggers but from what I read they are not near as reliable as pocket wizards. As far as triggering with the on cam flash I think you can do that but if you "turn down the flash" on cam enough that it will not light the subject, then I doubt it will have enough to trigger the 580. Another option is a cable that goes from cam to flash but it is only like 2.5' long and generally you will want the flash farther away.

[rcastillo]

oh okay, so anything less than pocket wizards are a no-no then?

[divejunky]

Hi
Just to correct you, you can't use the onboard flash to trigger a canon speedlight. your 580 acts as the master flash only while it's connected to the camera and then you can use it to control other speedlights in your set-up.
It's Nikon that uses the onboard flash to control other flashes in the set-up.

[lissykeeper]

divejunky is right. This is one thing nikon got right and canon missed. you will either have to have cords to connect your camera to your flash (and probably adapters) or some other radio trigger like pocket wizards. I hear that the cactus triggers are pretty dependable, but I haven't used them yet. The good news is that since you have a 580, once you get it connected to your camera in some way, you can use it as the master to fire off other flashes in the cannon line like the 430ex, which has dropped in price lately.

[Taallyn]

There are some newer radio triggers that are not quite as expensive as the Pocket Wizards. They each have different issues, but are generally better than the Ebay/Gadget Infinity triggers. Look for Elinchrome Skyports and Alien Bee Cybersynchs. Both are made by studio light manufacturers that have been around for awhile now. Another one due to hit the market "soon" is the RadioPopper Jr by RadioPopper.

Each are less expensive than the Pocket Wizards, but read the specs closely to make sure you get the ones that work with your flash they way you want it to. One or the other might require a hotshoe to PC or hotshoe to minijack adapter.

[RexK_Cozumel]

The cactusv2 triggers are a cheap way to fire your flash guns remotely $20USD for a pair (trigger and reciever) This is probably the cheapest way to get wireless off camera flash. They are not as reliable as pocket wizards or radio poppers or some of the other brands but for the price they are great. I have two pairs of the cactus triggers and while they sometimes dont fire it is not really that big of an issue for me right now. I think that if I were doing more gigs where it was critical for the flash to trigger every time I would invest in better triggers but for now I rather spend the money on better glass and save for the next camera body upgrade.

[Axis]

Thank you for the great information everyone. Looks like it's time to save up for a trigger. I think I'll search out those Cactus v2 triggers first, seems to be an inexpensive way to do some experimenting and eventually step up to another speedlight or two.

[inkista]

Ok, just wanted to add on more possibility, which really is the simplest, but is the most expensive and limited option, which is why most folks don't even consider it. And that's using a commander unit on the camera. I.e., buying a second 580EXII or a 580EX/550EX/ST-E2. The ST-E2 is about $250 and probably the cheapest (but again, most limited option--it's similar to a 550EX, and can only master two groups, and no manual power settings). Ok, you could also pick up a 430EX and use that as your off-camera flash, mastering it with your 580EX. That would definitely be the cheapest option if you want to use Canon's signalling system.

It's simpler than the other options because Canon's near-infrared system is built into these units: no dongles, cables, dangling triggers, or units/adapters to clamp to the feet. It's got more function, since eTTL (auto-power settings via metering) is retained (all the other triggering methods are going to require you to use the flashes in manual mode, which means setting/adjusting the flash power at the flash unit, not at the camera. And you retain high-speed synch (with radio triggers, the fastest shutter speed you can use is 1/250s).

However, because it uses a near-infrared signal, it's limited in terms of range and line-of-sight. Indoor use is great, since the signal can bounce around, but once you move outdoors, Canon's eTTL and Nikon's CLS become less reliable, and that's why radio triggers are preferred by most folks.

You can get the best of both worlds by using RadioPopper P1/P8 units to bridge the IR over radio. But they're roughly on a par with PocketWizards cost-wise.

[PhotoNewt]

Adding to the above, the Cactus V2 (AKA Ebay triggers) do not work well with Canon flash units despite what is claimed on their website. The explanation offered by a number of experienced photographers is that Canon flash units produce RF waves that make the triggers fire spontaneously or none at all. I tested some of these from a friend with my 580 and 430 units and found them to be fairly unreliable, missing about 30% of the time and spontaneously triggering the flashes on occasions (changing the radio channel seemed to help the latter some). I have read they are more dependable with non-Canon units such as Metz, Vivitar and even Nikons.

The other point to consider when using Canon's IR system - as Inkista pointed out - is line of sight issues. I found early on with this system where the flash was situated slightly behind the camera, triggering was sometimes erratic depending on the geometry of the room used; firing outside was even more difficult - IR systems may place some limits on the flash unit arrangement you can use for a particular situation (although it should work very well for most photo situations).

For that reason I adopted Pocket Wizards several years ago and can not find many faults with them (except the cost, about $180 each; you will need at least two units for the first flash and one additional unit for each additional flash unit you buy).

Hope this helps. The bottom line is the setup you now have DOES NOT have the capability for off-camera flash triggering with out additional equipment.