External flash or new lens??? Please Help!!!

[KhoaD]

I am in a pickle and I need some help. I bought my Canon T2i about 3 months ago. It was the kit lens so it came with the EFS 18-55mm and the EFS 55-250 Zoom lens. When I use the zoom lens I notice it isn't that great for indoor photos and isn't fast enough for sport pictures. As of now my main focus of photography is flowers, landscape, and wild life. But I take a lot of photos for the elementary school my wife works at. I have a couple of questions.

First which would be a better purchase, the Canon EF 200mm f/2.8 L II USM Lens or the Canon Speedlite 580 EX II? I know this might be a difficult question to answer but which would be better over all. If i buy one now, I will save up and buy the other one later. So which first?

Also if there is a better lens then the Canon EF 200mm f/2.8L II USm lens for under $1,000, for what I want to do? (i.e, sports, indoor sports, or indoors photography)

Thank you for the help. I am looking to buy one of these soon or putting it on my wish list to give to my wife. So please help, it would make my life a little less stressful.

[ceremus]

I don't know the flash side of things as well so I'll let someone else address that. Though of course there are times when flash is not preferred by those on the receiving end, or even not permitted at the event, so having a fast zoom or fast prime can definitely be advantageous.

If you're comfortable with making all of your shots at the 200mm focal length (because of course the 200mm in question is a prime lens which does not zoom) then this lens could serve you well. It has L lens build quality (excellent), the image quality is likewise excellent, and it's fast at f/2.8. Indoor sports photography is tough, though. Even at f/2.8 you may need to boost your ISO to 1600 or even 3200 to get your shutter speeds high enough to stop action.

Also, the 200mm isn't any faster than the 70-200mm f/2.8 L zoom lenses which are just about as good optically and provide more versatility being zoom lenses. The 200mm L lens is much less expensive, though. The 200mm also doesn't have IS, although for sports shooting you probably wouldn't miss it.

If you don't need quite as long a lens, the 100mm f/2 or 135mm f/2 L lenses are other possibilities. f/2 is a full stop wider than f/2.8, which lets in twice as much light, and the 100mm is significantly less expensive.

[KhoaD]

Awesome! Thanks for the advice. I will look at the two lens you recommended.

[ccting]

I bought my very first camera, D5100, with VR KIT len 18-55mm 23 June 2011. I was so tempted to buy lenses, but finally ended up with a speedlight. (* I study lenses for 3 months)

My opinion is that, you should buy speedlight first rather than a new len.

Reasoning:
a) You already have lenses from 18-250mm, 200mm is a repeating zoom. What happen to these lens when you purchase another new better len? Are they going to sleep in the store forever? This is absolutely a waste of money.
b) The new len is more expensive than a good speedlight
c) Photography is about light, with speedlight, you can learn more than a new len; With new len, you can learn much lesser. Try how to modify the light for the indoor game, if flash is allowed to be used..
d) With manual focus, and wait subject move in frame, and Speedlight, you may capture more quality pictures than a fast len.
e) You can do more kind of photography with a speedlight compared to a new len.
f) f/2.8 is not fast enough for low-light photography compared to f/1.8 or f/1.4, which are much cheaper
g) 70mm is not suitable for indoor photography, and therefore, you only gain benefit for indoor sports.
h) You need speedlight during sunny day to fill shadows, sports with ND filter, indoor phtoography for your baby.
i) SPeedlight + modifiers can zoom up to 300mm. Many experts use speedlight to shoot birds..As flash is instantaneous, it freezes motion about much lower shutter speeds. You can control the shutter speeds from 1/8 to more than 1/200s, and your subject remains sharper ... If you use len f/2.8, then you need to have at least 1/125s to freeze motion. I am sure you will have to boost your ISO..You can use multiple speedlight to lit the whole room ;D
j) With speedlight, you can modify the "brightness" of background compared to your subject. But, you cannot do it merely with a new len, alone.
k) You can have nice bokeh during very bright day with speedlight + ND filter.

Just after i bought my D5100, I studied lenses for 3 months and so tempted to buy one. But after i learn about flash (see the articles in my signature), I think speedlight is much more useful than a new len. I believe your 55-350 EFS len will not be used anymore if you buy a new len, but you will utilize the existing lenses with speedlight. For these reasons, I think you should buy speedlight rather than a new len for better Value/Money. That L len is for professionals..just too expensive to own for hobby

With the new L len, you gain benefit for indoor sports only. But with speedlight you gain benefit for outdoor sports, indoor sports, and indoor photography. FOr low-light, you better get much cheapter f/1.8 len. Then you end up with speedlight + f/1.8 or even f/1.4 len. 70mm is too narrow to be used for indoor photography, and f/2.8 is not suitable for all low-light photography. f/1.8 or f/1.4 is much better. So, I suggest you use those money for a) Speedlights b) Radio flash trigger c) Low-light len f/1.8, d)studio set (umbrella, light stands, tripod, softbox, etc) and etc rather than a repeated zoom len. You just, should not have bought the efs 55-250mm len, if you know you are going for the L-len.

See how the flash experts (e.g. SK) comment.. The L len is good to have, but speedlight is a must to have.

This is my opinion (not advice). I am a total noob who bought my first camera on 23 June 2011.

[homank76]

A flash is useless for shooting sports.

The subjects are moving and are to far away for the flash to make a difference. Unless your shooting sports like bowling or something along those lines.

[inkista]

Originally Posted by ceremus

...If you don't need quite as long a lens, the 100mm f/2 or 135mm f/2 L lenses are other possibilities. f/2 is a full stop wider than f/2.8, which lets in twice as much light, and the 100mm is significantly less expensive.

There's also the EF 85mm f/1.8 USM. It's nicknamed "Mr. Basketball" on the dpreview Canon lens forum.

[scootermcq]

Fast glass on that body is not a magic pill....

I would suggest that you will get too much noise if you push it above ISO1000

2-3 stops by having nicer glass takes you from 1/10 of a second to 1/40th... it will not stop action.

If you look at the example below, it was taken on a Nikon body, but with similar ISO performance as your Canon (although you may have a small edge)

This is "fast" glass, and 3 speedlights in a well lit hockey area.


80 mm
ISO 1000
F4
1/250

without the speedlights, I was metering around 1/125, ISO1600, at f2.8.....

So I would have had grainy pictures with motion blur and 0 DOF......

I'm not saying not to get the better glass, because you will enjoy it and your images will benefit from it. Just a cravat, It might not get you to where you want to go alone.

[scootermcq]

I went out on flickr and searched some basket ball pictures. I could not find your model, but this image I am linking to probably illustrates what I am warning about....


Basketball 2010 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Camera Nikon D5000
Exposure 0.005 sec (1/200)
Aperture f/1.8
Focal Length 50 mm
ISO Speed 3200

So... in this gym ISO 3200 at f1.8 got them a shutter speed of 1/200 and there is still some motion blur in the subjects..... you aint gonna get f1.8 on most of the lenses listed, so are you happy with images taken as ISO6400 on your body??

No disrespect to the other posters, but he is gonna drop a grand and still not be able to do what he is dropping the grand for.

[inkista]

I get what you're saying, but not sure that a single on-camera 580EX II is going to nab him the shots he wants, either. Especially with a 55-250 IS.

As you said, the shot you show as an example used THREE speedlights, presumably off-camera. With a reliable triggering system. And while it might not cost $1000 with all-manual flashes, it would certainly exceed that with 580EX IIs (which go for $450 a pop) and the learning curve is going to be a lot steeper.

Your assumptions are for specific shutter speeds and lighting combinations and certain sports. I'm still not 100% clear that the OP is talking about something comparable to indoors hockey (possibly one of the faster sports out there), despite the wording. All I'm getting is available light shooting for an elementary school. If we're talking stage shooting, then a fast prime might be just the ticket.

Yes, a flash can accomplish things no lens can, and can be a great purchase and can help out every lens you own. But the learning curve is quite a bit steeper, and in the end, you're likely to want the larger max. aperture AND the flash, and it's not really a matter of "or". If the OP can spend $1k, getting a 580EX II and an EF 85mm f/1.8 USM or EF 100mm f/2 USM is entirely possible.

[ArmySoldier777]

Scott, if you want to do searches in the future you should check out this site below. Search for the camera model and whatever lens you're looking into then look through the pages. I've found quite a few low light sports shots with the body he's talking about as well as with some of the lenses mentioned. I know it isn't exactly on par with what he's asking about lol, just wanted to share a resource with you if you didn't know about it.

Advanced Search

Oh yeah, it's also a great site if you're looking to buy new lenses and want to see just what they're capable of on your current body


David