Advice on Canon Wide-Angle Prime, Sigma 20mm, etc?

[Chaotic Beds]

Ok, I'm new to the DSLR world, and recently got the Canon T1i. My only lens at the moment is stated in my sig: 60mm 2.8 macro. I spent weeks researching possible lenses, and decided to focus on high sharpness primes (according to reviews) with wide(-ish) apertures - I can do without zoom, but I really want low-light capabilities, and usually don't like using tripods. For me, they're inconvenient to carry and set up, and make some of angles I like to shoot at nigh impossible.

I really want a wide/ultra-wide angle for my next lens, and I have about $500 to spend on one. I actually have the Sigma 20mm 1.8 on order from Amazon.com, but apparently it's no longer manufactured, and is on back order... The estimated ship date was a few weeks after the actual order was placed. (This order can be canceled any time before it's shipped out to me if I want/need to.)

I really wanted wider, I wanted the extra distorted perspective, as well as the wider view... I was looking at the 10-20mm Sigma, but the aperture wasn't cutting it, and reports of mustache distortion is off-putting... And looking at prices, in consideration of wanting sharpness in a fast lens, wider doesn't seem like an option? And I'm iffy on the Canon 20mm... Higher price, only 2.8, mediocre reviews... The 24mm and 28mm are a bit too far from my intended focal length for my taste to be options.... Even the 20mm was a compromise for me.

But anyways, I have concerns regarding Sigma's quality control and mixed reviews, especially with the back order status. Like, if mine has poor IQ, how much trouble and/or waiting will it be to return and replace it? I don't want to go through all that, I'm an exhausted, nearly-overworked senior in university, with other issues in my life, so I don't have much energy/patience/etc to deal with ongoing issues regarding this...

What if I found one on ebay or craigslist, is there any way to deal with the possibility of getting a dud? I almost went with one on Ebay, then the paranoia crept in... "why is this person selling it? are they trying to recoup on their own bad copy? why don't you accept returns on the item, dude?"

So, specific questions, since I tend to get all rambly and scatterbrained:

1. Advice on the returns/back order/quality control/etc issue?

2. Advice on other comparable lenses? Any other good 3rd party options?... Under $500 or so, 20mm or shorter, wide aperture? (I know, I have tough requirements )

[ravncat]

I don`t know about canon lenses, nor much about the sigma, but

1. Sigma has some QC issues - but they usually aren`t that bad, some people have claimed worse - most places will let you return fairly quickly if you find it isn`t to your liking - however many people are against this practice - I`ve never had to do so, but i`ve also never bought sigma..

2. 20mm on a crop camera, is not very wide. When you get to really wide lenses, your focal length works in favor of your minimum shutter speed for stopping movement - and wide apertures don`t do much for your depth of field isolation. I`m not sure if it is under 500, but it is close - The Tokina 11-16 2.8 is wider, wide aperture and relatively inexpensive, it`s zoom range is so short - it may as well be a prime The 11-16 puts you firmly in the "ultra wide" category

(I have an 11-16 (for the nikon mount), i knew what I was getting before I got it, and it`s exactly what I wanted - quite a nice lens, many people complain about the range being short - and it sometimes has decentering problems - there was a batch that shipped without one of the supports for an internal lens element, tokina has repaired / replaced those , so if you buy used you might encounter the problem - but tokina should repair it. Mine doesn`T show that issue, and is incredibly sharp.)

[Chaotic Beds]

Yeah, I was afraid 20mm wouldn't be wide enough on the crop frame... but without knowing what 3rd parties to look into, thought it was my only realistic choice.

I actually looked into more 3rd party reviews after posting this, and came across the Tokina 11-16... It's more than I wanted to spend, but looks like one of the best options that's (kinda) in my range. Thank you for the suggestion!

Any other ideas? (upon further research, I don't see many possibilities...)

For now I'm canceling the Sigma order, and looking into maybe Ebay-ing the Tokina.

Also, as far as f/1.8 compared to 2.8, how much of a difference would it make? I looked into it and found it's 1 and 1/3 of a stop difference... then did a test with my lens - 2.8 vs. 4, with otherwise identical shots/settings - and compared the brightness. It seemed somewhat minor - there was an obvious difference, but it wasn't a huge deal.

In real world settings for low-light use, is 1 1/3 of a stop that big of deal?

[RichardTaylor]

One stop makes a huge difference, especially hand holding in low light.
It means you may be able to shoot at 1/30 second and get a lot of "keepers" instead of 1/15 second and getting a lot of failures (dependant on who is shooting)

[Michael_2010]

Not very long ago I bought a Canon 10-22mm. Have not really learned how to best use it yet, but it has been fun trying. I did a lot of reading and was about ready to go with the Tokina based upon a very lengthy, detailed review by Ken Rockwell.

Tokina 11-16mm

Throughout the review he raved about the lens in comparison to the Nikon equivalent. Then at the very end of his review he says, if you shoot Canon........ get the Canon "... since it doesn't cost much more and has a much wider and longer zoom range."

[inkista]

You say:

I really wanted wider, I wanted the extra distorted perspective, as well as the wider view... I

But then you don't want a lens because it exhibits mustache distortion. Hmmm.

Anyhoo, two possibilities on the cheap end of the scale (because, face it, you want a high-quality fast prime in ultrawide from Canon, you're looking at the $2100 EF 14mm f/2.8).

Consider whether or not you need autofocus. And consider whether you really want a rectilinear ultrawide, or a fisheye.

Fisheyes go wider than rectilinear lenses because they don't care about correcting for distortion, and map onto a spherical plane, rather than a flat one. I use the Sigma 8mm f/3.5 Circular Fisheye on a crop body. Because the lens was designed for full-frame, I get an image with dark corners. But I also get 180° coverage across the frame (i.e., I can get my baseball cap brim and my shoes in the same shot).

Most good fisheyes start around $600, but if you are willing to go manual focus only (and with the DoF a fisheye or ultrawide gives you, manual focus is relatively easy), there's a Korean company called Samyang that makes a generic lens that gets relabelled/branded by many 3rd party sellers. The Samyang/Rokinon/Vivitar/Bower/Phoenix/etc. etc. 8mm fisheye goes by many names (and focal lengths, weirdly), but it's a nice lens--much nicer than the old Russian Peleng. You can find them on Amazon for about $250.

There's also the Samyang etc. 14mm f/2.8 rectilinear ultrawide for about $400. It does, however, exhibit mustache distortion, although it's more noticeable with a full frame, vs. a crop. You will probably need specialized software like PTLens to correct for it.

[Chaotic Beds]

Originally Posted by inkista

You say:



But then you don't want a lens because it exhibits mustache distortion. Hmmm.

Anyhoo, two possibilities on the cheap end of the scale (because, face it, you want a high-quality fast prime in ultrawide from Canon, you're looking at the $2100 EF 14mm f/2.8).

Consider whether or not you need autofocus. And consider whether you really want a rectilinear ultrawide, or a fisheye.

Fisheyes go wider than rectilinear lenses because they don't care about correcting for distortion, and map onto a spherical plane, rather than a flat one. I use the Sigma 8mm f/3.5 Circular Fisheye on a crop body. Because the lens was designed for full-frame, I get an image with dark corners. But I also get 180° coverage across the frame (i.e., I can get my baseball cap brim and my shoes in the same shot).

Most good fisheyes start around $600, but if you are willing to go manual focus only (and with the DoF a fisheye or ultrawide gives you, manual focus is relatively easy), there's a Korean company called Samyang that makes a generic lens that gets relabelled/branded by many 3rd party sellers. The Samyang/Rokinon/Vivitar/Bower/Phoenix/etc. etc. 8mm fisheye goes by many names (and focal lengths, weirdly), but it's a nice lens--much nicer than the old Russian Peleng. You can find them on Amazon for about $250.

There's also the Samyang etc. 14mm f/2.8 rectilinear ultrawide for about $400. It does, however, exhibit mustache distortion, although it's more noticeable with a full frame, vs. a crop. You will probably need specialized software like PTLens to correct for it.

What I meant by distorted perspective, is the exaggerated distances, etc. I'd like to avoid mustache, barrel, etc, distortions. Like, I'd want the lines in a brick wall to be as straight as possible, but I'd like to get a close up shot of something, and have the opposite end of it look far far away. I know some barrel distortion is inevitable for an ultra-wide, but I've seen mention that it's easier to correct (if I feel the need to) than mustache distortion... But I have no experience with lens corrections, so, I dunno...

And yeah, I definitely want rectilinear. No circular fisheyes for me (at least, not yet...)

I did happen across a review for the Samyang(etc) 14mm, and I'm keeping that as an option.

Thanks for the input!

[Chaotic Beds]

Originally Posted by RichardTaylor

One stop makes a huge difference, especially hand holding in low light.
It means you may be able to shoot at 1/30 second and get a lot of "keepers" instead of 1/15 second and getting a lot of failures (dependant on who is shooting)

Thank you

Originally Posted by Michael_2010

Not very long ago I bought a Canon 10-22mm. Have not really learned how to best use it yet, but it has been fun trying. I did a lot of reading and was about ready to go with the Tokina based upon a very lengthy, detailed review by Ken Rockwell.

Tokina 11-16mm

Throughout the review he raved about the lens in comparison to the Nikon equivalent. Then at the very end of his review he says, if you shoot Canon........ get the Canon "... since it doesn't cost much more and has a much wider and longer zoom range."

Thank you too

I'm not diggin' the Canon's aperture, though...