D800 & d800e

[inkista]

... which is why they're offering the D800e and removing the low-pass/anti-aliasing filter. I'm just saying, to me (a 21MP 5Dii user), the specs don't look dismal/dire, and that I'm really eager to see what the test results from that sensor are going to actually be, before I'm going to pronounce any judgement calls.

[sk66]

Originally Posted by inkista

... which is why they're offering the D800e and removing the low-pass/anti-aliasing filter. I'm just saying, to me (a 21MP 5Dii user), the specs don't look dismal/dire, and that I'm really eager to see what the test results from that sensor are going to actually be, before I'm going to pronounce any judgement calls.

I'm quite certain for some it will be a dream come true... Once I realized it's effectively a larger D7000 sensor it seems much more reasonable.

[ravncat]

Was at the Nikon salon in Osaka today - Saw some very nice a3 prints via d800 at iso 100. Wonderful detail, shot at f8 with the 14-24.

[OsmosisStudios]

As posted by Thom Hogan (Feb 9)

Still not my words. But I love it when I get engineers talking ;~):

diffraction limited spot size = 2.44 * wavelength * fno

Which means Q = spot size / (2.44 * pixel pitch)

If spot size = 2.44 times pixel pitch, Q=1.

For the D800E, there will be a steady loss of resolution above f/8.9

[sk66]

Interesting...
With my D3 the 300-800 was sharpest at f/11. With the D7000 I get no benefit above f/8.... In fact, the D7000 seems less detailed than the D3 at any f-stop with that lens, but I'm not sure why. Also, ISO 800 is the last really "clean" ISO on the D7000 (even then I get color noise in blue skies). I only mention this since the sensor on the D800 may be essentially a 2x D7000 sensor.

[ravncat]

Sk66 do you have a d3 still?

I'd be curious to see you do one of the tests on Thom hogans site, can you take couple still d7000 images at different ISO , and downsize them to 5.4 megapixels, and compare to the same image in the crop mode of the d3? - doing this across the same ISO....

I think Thom may be trying to say that at the 12mp d3 resolution, we will likely get simmilar or better performance from the 36mp d800 when it is downsampled... to the same resolution as the d3. Which seems to make sense as noise does do that - in what is effectively pixel binning. Though it could be worse - If I had them both I'd do it just to take a look.

On a side note - if in deed your d7000 looks worse at any other aperture with that lens, perhaps its best performing at f8? Lower loses quality to lens design, higher loses resolution to diffraction? Or, the lens itself just doesn't have the same resolving power.

[ravncat]

Originally Posted by ccting

I bet there will be 0 sale for D4 from now on..

I suspect D4 will sell very well amongst pro's.

Originally Posted by ccting

Is there any possibility to switch between D800 and D800e with a control button in future?

No, There are different filter packs in front of the sensor. It'd be easier to demoire in post, if it is actually an issue.

[ccting]

If we look at the history of the speed of CPU (Hz) and the size of storage, they are increasing almost exponentially...Can you forecast the MP of the camera within these few years?

Manufacturers say: You can't stop spending money on cameras... LOL

Pros will buy D4? it is very clear that Nikon will launch D4x with 32MP and D4s that has much higher fps than D4. Will they regret for buying D4 , later?

I believe cameras need heatshink and fan in the future..

[sk66]

Originally Posted by ravncat

Sk66 do you have a d3 still?

I'd be curious to see you do one of the tests on Thom hogans site, can you take couple still d7000 images at different ISO , and downsize them to 5.4 megapixels, and compare to the same image in the crop mode of the d3? - doing this across the same ISO....

I think Thom may be trying to say that at the 12mp d3 resolution, we will likely get simmilar or better performance from the 36mp d800 when it is downsampled... to the same resolution as the d3. Which seems to make sense as noise does do that - in what is effectively pixel binning. Though it could be worse - If I had them both I'd do it just to take a look.

On a side note - if in deed your d7000 looks worse at any other aperture with that lens, perhaps its best performing at f8? Lower loses quality to lens design, higher loses resolution to diffraction? Or, the lens itself just doesn't have the same resolving power.

No D3 anymore...I drowned it.

I couldn't find the referneced test by Thom Hogan, but I did find this re D7000:

"the D7000 is not down to D3/D700 noise levels, let alone D3s noise levels. Nevertheless, it reaches unmatched levels for a crop sensor."
"But let me put this in no uncertain terms that everyone should be able to understand:
ISO 100 to 400: use without worry
ISO 800: pixel peepers will see noise in deep shadow patches
ISO 1600 to 3200: pixel peepers will see noise in mid-range tonal patches
ISO 6400: noise crosses over to very visible, and it gets blotchy; DR has tightened considerably
ISO 12800 to 25600: noise is destroying detail, very visible, blotchy, colors are impacted, DR highly diminished"

This matches my experience and is notably worse in comparison to the D3.
Downsampling hides a lot of "faults", but in many cases simply having more pixels on subject will return the better image. That's why I plan on keeping the D7000. Just for the crop factor. It will be like having a 1.5x TC for the D4 with (almost) no penalties.

As for the aperture/sharpness thing..indeed the D7000/800mm are sharpest @ f/8. I can only assume the change from being sharpest @ f/11 on the D3 is due to diffraction. But honestly, it could be due to the increase in ISO/color noise due to the required higher ISO....and the required post to remove it. I haven't run "tests", it's just the results I'm getting.

[ravncat]

Originally Posted by sk66

honestly, it could be due to the increase in ISO/color noise due to the required higher ISO....and the required post to remove it. I haven't run "tests", it's just the results I'm getting.

Understandable. I go with the results I get as well. Knowing why is sometimes useful, but as long as you know , this works better for some reason - that's usually enough. Sorry to hear about the d3, I remember reading about it in other posts now, I just get people and events mixed up.

I'll be sticking with my d700 for some time, as I need to upgrade my PC, get a new mountain bike, preparations and side funds for our upcoming baby and hopefully a new guitar... I wouldn't even be thinking about the d800 except that my wife brought it up haha