What’s Your Preference?

teepee12 · #1 (**permalink**) 09-01-2011, 12:45 AM

Sunflower, taken very close with an Olympus PEN PL-1 14-42mm lens. This is pretty much exactly the way it came out of the camera. I didn't see anything that needed doing to it. Do you?

This one has a few honeybees having a party. Others from this group are bee free, as it were.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/teepee1...n/photostream/

JFSanders · #2 (**permalink**) 09-01-2011, 02:00 AM

A couple of suggestions. If you have a flickr (and you do) then put the image 700 pixels on the longest side inline with your posted questions. Also, include your exif data (it is available from your flickr page. Just copy the basic stuff such as ISO, SS, F/stop and post it with your image. This will get you many more responses and also better critiques. As most folks have limited time to view and respond they tend to skip over posts such as yours unless they know you and or you have a good reputation in the community in which case they will probably just bust your nads about not posting correctly and ridicule you until you become a quivering blob curled up in the corner of your closet trying to remember where you put the razor blades...

Anyway, nice shapshot but the back ground is too distracting and the bees don't take center stage. Mostly due to the fact that they are too small on the large sunflower backdrop. Sharpness is an issue as well with this image. I like the idea of what you were going for here but the execution is in need of work. Go take about 50 more images of this flower at different times of the day and see how the light changes the mood and composition of the flower and the bees.

Jim

teepee12 · #3 (**permalink**) 09-01-2011, 02:53 PM

Sunflower Survivor | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

I wish I had metadata for this. I could get that information when I shot on my Canon, but on the Olympus, it does not show up in PhotoShop, Corel, or Digital Photo Pro. Since the camera is very new ... just got it day before yesterday ... there may be a setting that I need to use to get the metadata to show up. As for "not sharp" ... I reduced the size of this picture to 72dpi to make uploading easy and I'm sure that reduced sharpness some. I checked those totally untouched images and there was no metadata for them, either.

I have no idea, unfortunately, what you are talking about vis-a-vis Flickr settings. I am not new to photography, but I am rather new to Flickr and to this forum. I appreciate the time you took to respond, but I'm kind of baffled by your background comments (what background? I was shooting from about 6 inches away entirely to avoid the background ... and I've fought with this bunch of sunflowers for many summers)

This shot has no bees, but it's actually my favorite and the first of the series. I have been poring over my manual for the last couple of days trying to figure out settings and menus, with minor success. Considering that I spent 35 years writing manuals, the fact that I can't find basic setting information that makes any sense to me is not a good sign. It is well-meaning, but baffling.

IF there is a setting to control on/off metadata, I have not found it. It was automatically available on the Canon ... no setting required. So either the Olympus doesn't collect it, or I have to do something ...what I don't know ... to get it. I am certainly NOT going to stop and write down the information for each shot. I think I'd just give up photography altogether if I had to do that.

Helpful suggestions are always welcome. This was my first shot at trying to get some feedback and from your response that clearly indicates my lack of ability, it will also likely be my last.

JFSanders · #4 (**permalink**) 09-02-2011, 01:42 AM

What I did was. Open the image in the flickr page and chose the 640 pixel size. Then I right clicked on the image and chose the option to "copy image location". Then I came back to the thread and hit reply and then chose the

icon and when the dialog box opened up I pasted the "copy image location" information into the box making sure that I did not double up on the http// protocol. It will then appear inline with the post.

As you can see there are bees in the image. They are soft focused as well. And because they are small in comparison to the sunflower on which they sit they get lost in all of the yellow.

As to the loss of exif information, it looks like it was stripped when you saved in photoshop. Although it may be a quirk of the Olympus system, I doubt it. Take the image straight from the card and open it up in irfanview (free program) and it should show you the exif data that will be stripped in editing programs.

Quote:

Helpful suggestions are always welcome. This was my first shot at trying to get some feedback and from your response that clearly indicates my lack of ability, it will also likely be my last.

It was not my intent or desire to cause you anxiety or pain. Please accept my sincere apology. I was only trying to help you to understand that the light plays an overwhelming role in the making of an image and by making many different images of the same subject one begins to grasp the skill of light manipulation that leads to striking and memory evoking images. It was not meant as a slight or denigration of your abilities.

Jim

BigFuzzy · #5 (**permalink**) 09-02-2011, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teepee12

Helpful suggestions are always welcome. This was my first shot at trying to get some feedback and from your response that clearly indicates my lack of ability, it will also likely be my last.

I hesitate to even say anything, because you're clearly sensitive/defensive, but I also believe in being honest and constructive so here goes and you did ask for 'helpful suggestions' and you are in the "critique" section.

I agree with Jim. Fully. This image, while not bad, is also not at all exciting to me and here are my critiques and helpful (ie constructive) suggestions on what I feel could be done to maximize this opportunity.

Compositionally it's smack dab in the middle and has elements of the flower cropped off which, to me, hurt a central composition. If you're going to put something in the middle of the frame I'd suggest ensuring that it really fits the symmetry of the frame. This one is at a slight angle where i think (if centrally composed) would have more impact if shot exactly straight on.

It's also a clear struggle between what the subject is. The bees are so small as to be almost not noticeable.

I also agree that the background is very distracting. You have lots of detail and lots of differences in contrast (ie light vs dark) which will work towards drawing the viewer away from the main subject.

In the end, to me, this is an nice "for the record" snap shot that doesn't have anything really wrong with it, but it's also not anything that stands out to me in any way.

Another great (albeit harsh) comment I got early on was "yeah, your photo and the 10million others like it"... which I walked away from having learned a great lesson which I think can help everyone: What is it that makes your image different from the ones taken by the 100 million other flower photos taken every day around the world? What did you do differently? If you don't care to be different and push yourself, fine, don't care. If you do want to push your photography just a bit further beyond the same shots everyone see all the time, you have to ask yourself this question every time you see an interesting scene.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFSanders

It was not my intent or desire to cause you anxiety or pain. Please accept my sincere apology. It was not meant as a slight or denigration of your abilities.

You have no reason to apologize Jim. You gave honest open constructive criticism in a "critique" section. That's exactly what you should be doing. Maybe offense was taken because the OP can't see any of your work despite the fact your words are sound.. but hopefully teepee won't have the same issue with me.

windrider86 · #6 (**permalink**) 09-02-2011, 12:53 PM

Your data does show up with Olympus (I shoot Olympus)
in Photoshop go to file and file info, it will tell you!

JFSanders · #7 (**permalink**) 09-04-2011, 03:00 PM

Al,

Quote:

You have no reason to apologize Jim. You gave honest open constructive criticism in a "critique" section. That's exactly what you should be doing. Maybe offense was taken because the OP can't see any of your work despite the fact your words are sound.. but hopefully teepee won't have the same issue with me.

While what you say is profoundly true and correct for the sub-forum to which the OP has posted I do take some responsibility. This is mainly due to the fact that the OP is fairly new and most likely is unaware of what is common and expected in the Critique sections. And out of the desire to see her continue and not give up I remonstrated in my reply. Now she may not ever return and in which case she will be all the worse for it as a photographer and artist, but at that point I will have a clear conscience.

Thanks for seeing my points in critquing the image presented. As for me not presenting images in the forums, well that has more to do with my lack of self esteem and the wishes of my models to remain anonymous and unpublished.

Although there are images in these forums if one does a bit of searching. And I do repost post processing edits so the OP can see what it is that I am trying to convey. So I am not entirely outside the public arena.

Jim

3bayjunkie · #8 (**permalink**) 09-04-2011, 09:06 PM

I don't consider this macro. maybe it should be moved to somewhere else? j/s

First Light · #9 (**permalink**) 09-04-2011, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JFSanders

As most folks have limited time to view and respond they tend to skip over posts such as yours unless they know you and or you have a good reputation in the community in which case they will probably just bust your nads about not posting correctly and ridicule you until you become a quivering blob curled up in the corner of your closet trying to remember where you put the razor blades...

Go take about 50 more images of this flower at different times of the day and see how the light changes the mood and composition of the flower and the bees.

Jim

Both of these statements are quite true. Jim is one of the nicest people here, he really is just trying to encourage you.

I have Pink Lady flowers that bloom in my front yard in early/mid-August. I posted 21 of my best shots on my Flikr page, but I think I TOOK over 200! All at different times of day, in different light, from different focal lengths, etc. It is a very good exercise for 1)Learning your camera and 2)Learning about light & focus. I'm still far from being an expert, but critiques like the one Jim gave you have gotten me a long way down the path.