Bullet Point

[chicagojohn]

This was an attempt to make a stock photo that could be used to attract attention in a ppt presentation where bullet points are used.

Lens: Tamaron 90mm 1:1 macro prime
Aperture: f/5.6
Exposure: 1/125, studio flash f/8 above and f/2.8 below
Camera: Pentax K100D Super

The attempt was to use DOF to isolate the two subject bullets through differential focus and to suggest a story of sorts. Any suggestions for improvement in the fundamental concept, the specific composition elements, and/or technical execution would be appreciated.

[chicagojohn]

Originally Posted by chicagojohn

This was an attempt to make a stock photo that could be used to attract attention in a ppt presentation where bullet points are used.

Is someone going to offer some comment on this image??

It's not like you're gonna get shot, folkes; these are just pictures of bullets. They are not real bullets.

First we have awareness. If you are reading this, then you have awareness of the image. Then we have sensation, and that may involve a positive, negative, or neutal reaction to the initial awareness.

Let's not go further at this point; just tell me this: Positive, Neutral, or Negative.

Then, if I get one response on that level, we will go further.

[mrteacherdude]

Chicagojohn -

I suspect that people have a tendency to do as I do, and that is to offer critique if they feel they have something to offer. I've viewed many photos on this site and only responded to the requests for critique or feedback of some sort to relatively few of those I have viewed. For me, there are probably several things that must come together to feel comfortable with responding:

• An ability to comprehend the intentions of the photo, or if it evokes a particular emotional response from me.
• Knowledge and/or experience and personal comfort with the technique and/or content.
• Perceived ability of self to provide meaningful and articulate feedback.

If I am weak in any of those areas, then I personally feel it inappropriate to offer critique and am likely to view only and wait to see what others post. Sometimes I view photos several times over the course of several days, think about them, and then respond. In the case of your bullet photo, several of the view counts are in fact mine.

Honestly, I've thought about this particular photo, and I can't think of much that would provide meaningful feedback for you, other than perhaps what I am writing now. To me, I see what appears to be a technically good photograph of a bunch of hollow-points, and a soft-point. The photo itself seems to be a little bright in the lower left quadrant, and the one hollow-point to the lower right of the one that is to the right of the soft-point seems like it might be a little too focused for what your original intentions were. But what do I know? I have no (well, very little) experience with taking photos like this.

And even though the presentation of your image may be just as you intended, I don't understand it in the context you have suggested you are going to use it. And maybe it's not so much that I don't get it, but that I am having difficulties envisioning its use in how I understand you have suggested its use. I've personally used many different types of images to use as bullet points in my ppts, but they are generally quite simple and small, and this seems a little busy to me. So I'm struggling with my own experiences and extrapolation from there to the application of your image.

So what I am mostly saying here is - "I get it, but I don't get it." I'm afraid that might not offer much help for you, but I wonder if that's why you haven't received the feedback you were hoping for.

[tlpphoto]

I'm just seeing this image for the first time. Interesting idea -- bullet points, I like it -- and well executed. I like the way the base of the image is completely white -- did you have the bullets placed on top of a light box? The gleam on the brass is nearly perfect and the narrow depth of field helps tell the story.

And there is a story here. Obviously one bullet is different than the other -- a sharper point, but why is the 2nd bullet out of line as well? Makes you think.

Two suggestions. 1) I think I would try adding a few more rounds to the background of your image. That way it will look as if the bullets go on in an infinitely long line -- I've often thought that about some briefings I've sat through . That will provide more emphasis to your one, sharp, point that's standing out in front.

2) I think I know what you were trying convey by using the hollow point bullets (flat/dull points versus the one sharp point). However, I think that could strike some individuals wrong -- some folks have an aversion to ammunition in general, and hollow points in particular (I'm actually surprise you could have either if you are in Chicago as your username implies). So, my 2nd suggestion would be to replace the flat hollow points with normal full metal jacket rounds. The bullet in front will still be sharper than the FMJ rounds, although the contrast will be less. But I think you will avoid some negative prejudices.

My 2 cents.
Tim

[chicagojohn]

Originally Posted by mrteacherdude

"I get it, but I don't get it."

Thank you for responding. I didn't get it either, but I did it anyway. I thought it was empty of meaning, hollow of any point, so to speak. Merely an attempt to demonstrate how to use limited DOF.

But maybe this was more fundamentally a subconscious expression of hostility, within my experience,of meaningless corporate meetings during which I am expected to present my [explitive deleted] "bullet points".!!!

For stepping up to the plate, Dude, I'm going to invite you to assume the elite status of becomming my friend here on DPS... congratulations, Dude. You got on base.

[chicagojohn]

Originally Posted by tlpphoto

I'm just seeing this image for the first time. Interesting idea -- bullet points, I like it -- and well executed. I like the way the base of the image is completely white -- did you have the bullets placed on top of a light box? The gleam on the brass is nearly perfect and the narrow depth of field helps tell the story.

And there is a story here. Obviously one bullet is different than the other -- a sharper point, but why is the 2nd bullet out of line as well? Makes you think.

Two suggestions. 1) I think I would try adding a few more rounds to the background of your image. That way it will look as if the bullets go on in an infinitely long line -- I've often thought that about some briefings I've sat through . That will provide more emphasis to your one, sharp, point that's standing out in front.

2) I think I know what you were trying convey by using the hollow point bullets (flat/dull points versus the one sharp point). However, I think that could strike some individuals wrong -- some folks have an aversion to ammunition in general, and hollow points in particular (I'm actually surprise you could have either if you are in Chicago as your username implies). So, my 2nd suggestion would be to replace the flat hollow points with normal full metal jacket rounds. The bullet in front will still be sharper than the FMJ rounds, although the contrast will be less. But I think you will avoid some negative prejudices.

My 2 cents.
Tim

Hell, yes! You get an invite too!! Thanks for the insightful comments on an action on my part that was merely intended to illustrate how to use DOF to focus on a subject.

Love your work, Tim thanks for taking the time to comment.

[mrteacherdude]

Originally Posted by chicagojohn

But maybe this was more fundamentally a subconscious expression of hostility, within my experience,of meaningless corporate meetings during which I am expected to present my [explitive deleted] "bullet points".!!!

Ahhhhh!!! Now I get it! And it looks to me like tlpphoto got that right away. Apparently I do not have the same experience using or being subjected to presentations quite that way. And if I have, they have been stored away as repressed memories, and need to stay that way.

And now that I am understanding a little better the technical aspect of what you were trying to achieve, if I assume you wanted to emphasize the two bullets to the left side, you might be able to "blur" the others that also appear to be in focus, or somewhat in focus, by opening your aperture a little more.

[cristen]

Originally Posted by mrteacherdude

Chicagojohn -

I suspect that people have a tendency to do as I do, and that is to offer critique if they feel they have something to offer. I've viewed many photos on this site and only responded to the requests for critique or feedback of some sort to relatively few of those I have viewed. For me, there are probably several things that must come together to feel comfortable with responding:

• An ability to comprehend the intentions of the photo, or if it evokes a particular emotional response from me.
• Knowledge and/or experience and personal comfort with the technique and/or content.
• Perceived ability of self to provide meaningful and articulate feedback.

you couldn't have said it more succinctly, mrteacherdude....

all i can say is that chicagojohn takes nice, creative pictures. with his wit and humor, i've always enjoyed reading his posts..

[chicagojohn]

Originally Posted by cristen

you couldn't have said it more succinctly, mrteacherdude....

all i can say is that chicagojohn takes nice, creative pictures. with his wit and humor, i've always enjoyed reading his posts..

I'm not sure if this is appropriate or not... if not, maybe the strobist (and you know who you are ) will show up and correct what I am about to say; it is admittedly more of a philosophic statement than an image specific comment;

I think that each of us, as human beings, many of us from different cultures, and even within a culture, with different backgrounds and perspectives, each of us has a unique perspective to offer as to how any given image affects us.

Maybe it is positive, or attractive to some extent, however great or small that may be. Maybe it is negative or repulsive, however great or small that may be. And maybe it is neutral, and for that observer, maybe nothing much is experienced of either a positive or a negative nature when they observe that image.

As a scientist, and an empiricist, I'm interested in all three as data. We all have a certain attachment to images we post from the effort we have put into their creation, but we must also realize that a viewer, without that experience, will inevitably have a very different experience than we do when viewing our image. So when I post an image, I'm interested in gathering data from viewers with varying backgrounds, experience, and perspectives, realizing that it will be varied.

In my brief tenure in this wonderful forum, I would say that I wish there were more opinions expressed rather than fewer; be they positive, negative, or neutral; and without regard for the experience and knowledge of the contributor, because the very act of trying to express ones views is a learning experience, the reason we are all here. As Neil Creek puts it in his excellent new DPS book, Photo Nuts and Shots, "To become a better photographer, one should also become a better photography appreciator.", and I think this necessitates realizing that there are no absolutes, no "right" or "wrong", just factual reports of how any given image affects the viewer. And whatever that effect is, it is what it is: it is simply a fact, worthy of expression in its own right.

If someone posts an image, I think they should be open to understanding how many different people will react to it. That data can be then be understood and used to improve their goals in this medium. Maybe they don't care that much about how people respond to their image. I don't think that was the key driver for a Vincent Van Gogh, for example. On the other hand, maybe they do, wishing to pursue a commercial objective, for example.

So, in summary, I think that as responsible (and the root word of "responsible" is to respond) participants on this forum, whether we are posting images or responding to them, I think we should try to be first and foremost honest; whether our reaction is positive, negative, or neutral. I promise to do my best to do that, as I have been trying to since finding this wonderful forum, and I sincerely hope everyone else will try too. Sometimes it means taking a risk, but why not?

If this is not appropriate, let the lady with the strobe delete it

[cristen]

Originally Posted by chicagojohn

So, in summary, I think that as responsible (and the root word of "responsible" is to respond) participants on this forum, whether we are posting images or responding to them, I think we should try to be first and foremost honest; whether our reaction is positive, negative, or neutral. I promise to do my best to do that, as I have been trying to since finding this wonderful forum, and I sincerely hope everyone else will try too. Sometimes it means taking a risk, but why not?

If this is not appropriate, let the lady with the strobe delete it

you're absolutely right, chicagojohn. we always expect responses to our posts..(otherwise, we wouldn't be in this forum )

i could not help feeling disappointed whenever i check my post and still find it all alone by itself. it makes me think: is it this bad that i don't elicit anything? not even a negative comment? LOL.