Novice needs help, bright white background

[trizzypballr]

I want to start off by saying that I am a total novice photographer. I just purchased my first DSLR about a week ago. I breed reptiles and sell them online. Obviously when you are trying to make a sale over someone else selling the same reptile, the person with the best pictures animal will look the best and make the sale. With that being said alot of breeders use a bright white background to show their reptiles off. I am trying to master this background myself but have been struggling. The best way to explain what I am trying to accomplish is to show you a good example of what I am trying to achieve, so here is an example from another breeder:


I was told that lighting was my problem so I went out and purchased a light tent. It is a 20 inch cube with 2 26 watt 6500k compact fluorescent bulbs and the white cloth background. Here is a quick snap shot to show you my setup so you can see exactly what im working with (Please ignore the fixtures above the tent, they are just being stored there not being used) :


I actually even added an extra 26 watt 6500k compact fluorescent to my setup to try to get even more light into my tent, but I still cant seem to get what I am shooting for. Before I show you my result I should probably also tell you about my camera setup. I have a Nikon D5000 with an 18-55 lens.

The closest shot I have gotten to what Im looking for background wise would have been with my camera set to:
- Aperture Priority Manual mode
- Aperture set to 5.6
- zoomed the whole way in (55mm)
- ISO - 200
- White balance manually set by removing the object and setting it on the white background
- Flash off
- The shutter speed was automatically set to 1/40 since I was in aperture priority the camera picks it for me

The image itself did not turn out to well though for me. Btw I thought it would be easier to learn on something that couldnt move until I got my settings figured out :-)



It was also suggested that I try the Hi Key setting under a scene mode to see how it would turn out. Also a very white background but not a great image:


(Because this post is picture heavy, I have to continue it in post #2 because of a 4 image per post cap)

[trizzypballr]

(Continued from post #1)


Here is another example of a background close to what im looking for, I changed the exposure to +1, but you can tell the image is over exposed



Image wise here is the best shot ive been able to get, but the background suffered in this one. I cant seem to get the best of both worlds with anything I try


The last pictures settings were:
ISO-200
White balance set off the white back ground
Aperture 16
shutter 1/15


I asked for help in another forum and all they could really tell me for the most part is that its my lighting. I do not understand how it could possibly be my lighting though because a friend of mine is also working on trying to get her camera set up to do the exact same thing im trying to do. Her and I are using the EXACT same bulbs. She made a light tent out of a box and tissue paper instead of buying one, but I woulnt think this would affect it. She is only using 1 light compared to my 3! Like I said the bulbs are IDENTICAL even the same brand. Since she is only using 1 light she has a shadow, but thats not what im focusing on with her picture, its the fact that she was able to get a perfect white background out of 1/3rd of the lighting! here is a sample of what she is getting:


As Ive stated I am a total novice to photography so hopefully there is something simple that I am missing that someone can point out to me. Thank you ahead of time for everyones input

[teaking]

I would say for a product shot you could use a lower aperture as your not too worried about the background being sharp plus you will get a fast shutter. And as for lighting have you tried to light from just the top, or from one side and placing a reflector on the other side to see if it gives you better results. Hopefully someone with more experience can confirm what you need to do.

[moon]

I am not an expert at all,So I am not really sure whats going on with the lighting. Are the photos above in focus properly and I also think smaller aperture would be better.

[trizzypballr]

Originally Posted by teaking

I would say for a product shot you could use a lower aperture as your not too worried about the background being sharp plus you will get a fast shutter. And as for lighting have you tried to light from just the top, or from one side and placing a reflector on the other side to see if it gives you better results. Hopefully someone with more experience can confirm what you need to do.

I cannot set the aperture any lower. I have a light from each side and a light from the top shining down towards the background to help light that up also. As far as the reflectors go, being totally new ive never heard of this, can you explain to me how to do it? I will gladly give it a try if you think it will help

Ive had a conversation about these 18% grey cards the other night, does anyone think it would help to use one to set the white balance, or should I be fine just setting it off of the white cloth background that I am using?

[Benji]

In order to get a white background behind your subject or object the background MUST receive more light on it than what is on the subject or object. Since you are shooting with a constant light source this should not be all that difficult. Simply put more light onto the background than what is on the subject. This can be done in several ways, but the simplest I believe is what I have detailed below.

Use three bulbs above the light tent equally spaced across the back aimed rearward and downward so the light is only illuminating the background and NOT spilling onto the subject or object. Then light the subject or object with two of the same power bulbs as you used on the background and positoned at the same distance away from the tent as the background bulbs were. Take a test shot. If the background is not bright enough move the two bulbs that are aimed at the object several inches away from the object and shoot again. Continue moving the two lights further away until the background is as bright as you want it to be. Measure the distance of every bulb from the socket to the tent and record that for future reference. See my diagram below.

Benji

[i speak in math]

How close are your lights to the tent? I ask because you may be getting hot spots where the light is hitting only the middle of the wall and not the edges. This creates uneven light around the edges and makes the background change shades.

You can't really expect to get pure white without some post processing either. See the tutorial on the main page that was posted a few days back about whitening the background.

[trizzypballr]

Originally Posted by i speak in math

How close are your lights to the tent? I ask because you may be getting hot spots where the light is hitting only the middle of the wall and not the edges. This creates uneven light around the edges and makes the background change shades.

You can't really expect to get pure white without some post processing either. See the tutorial on the main page that was posted a few days back about whitening the background.

The lights are pretty much right against the tent. You think that is the problem? How far away do you suggest having them?

As far as processing the main problem with that is I have to make sure that while adjusting the background that I am not affecting the image at all. Because of the fact that some of the reptiles I work with are valued apon their color and intensity. There have been a few breeders who have been accused of doing post processing and ended up with a bad rap because of it, because apparently their colors got messed up a little bit. I cant say if it was intentional or accidental trying to doctor a background or something, but either way if I can get around it somehow it would be less headache for me to worry about trying to make sure the animals look identical to the pictures after doctoring the pictures.

[trizzypballr]

Originally Posted by Benji

In order to get a white background behind your subject or object the background MUST receive more light on it than what is on the subject or object. Since you are shooting with a constant light source this should not be all that difficult. Simply put more light onto the background than what is on the subject. This can be done in several ways, but the simplest I believe is what I have detailed below.

Use three bulbs above the light tent equally spaced across the back aimed rearward and downward so the light is only illuminating the background and NOT spilling onto the subject or object. Then light the subject or object with two of the same power bulbs as you used on the background and positoned at the same distance away from the tent as the background bulbs were. Take a test shot. If the background is not bright enough move the two bulbs that are aimed at the object several inches away from the object and shoot again. Continue moving the two lights further away until the background is as bright as you want it to be. Measure the distance of every bulb from the socket to the tent and record that for future reference. See my diagram below.

Benji

It will be very tough to get 3 bulbs across the top of my tent, I might have forgot to mention in my opening post, but my tent is only a 20 inch cube, so actually using the 10 inch reflectors I will only be able to get 2 on there. I can try 2 on the top and 1 on each side though. I will give that a shot. Thank you very much for pointing out that there needs to be more light on the background than the image, I never thought of that.

[i speak in math]

Originally Posted by trizzypballr

The lights are pretty much right against the tent. You think that is the problem? How far away do you suggest having them?

As far as processing the main problem with that is I have to make sure that while adjusting the background that I am not affecting the image at all. Because of the fact that some of the reptiles I work with are valued apon their color and intensity. There have been a few breeders who have been accused of doing post processing and ended up with a bad rap because of it, because apparently their colors got messed up a little bit. I cant say if it was intentional or accidental trying to doctor a background or something, but either way if I can get around it somehow it would be less headache for me to worry about trying to make sure the animals look identical to the pictures after doctoring the pictures.

The lights should be far enough back to equally light their entire face of the tent.

As of now, you are letting the camera choose what colors the animal appear. Who is to say the camera is 100% accurate. It is just the jpeg engine applying some mathematical algorithm to decide the colors. You can make them accurate in post processing or your doctor them to be fake. Its up to you -- that's the point.