Problem with 430EX II outside at night

[Johninbigd]

I just tried to get some interesting shots of a tree outside using my new flash. I tried this flash over the weekend indoors and it worked perfectly every time. However, this time it didn't go off most of the time and it was about six feet in front of me, so it definitely had line of sight. The only difference I can think of between now and then was that the first time I used it, I placed it in the shoe it came with and mounted it on my tripod. Tonight, I did not put it in the shoe because my daughter was holding it and moving it around for me. We even tried it when holding it in different spots on the flash so that nothing would be blocked, but it still only went off about three of 10 times I tried it.

I'm totally new to this flash and I'm going to dig the manual for it out of the bag, but I thought I'd check here, as well. If I did something silly (like perhaps not putting it in the shoe), I don't mind sharing my folly with others so that they may learn from my noob mistake.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!
John

[Johninbigd]

Replying to myself, I just tested it inside as a remote and on-camera and it works with zero problems. I thought it would work outside as well, as long as it was close to the camera and had line of sight. I bought a field guide for the Canon Speedlite System. I'm about to start reading it, so I can understand these little beasties better.

[OsmosisStudios]

Indoors the flash burst that the body sends out to trigger the 430 can bounce off the walls and everything: outside that isnt the case. That's one of the weaknesses of that kind of system. One thing you can try is to turn the head/body of the flash separately so that the body part (where the receiver is) has the receiver pointing towards you and the flash head is pointing at your subject/diffuser.

[GreggObst]

Do you by chance have any spotlights in the backyard that might interfere with the infrared signal ? You might try the opposite side of the house as a test to see if there is a predominant light source that might be interfering where you were trying before.

[Johninbigd]

I did have our porch light on, but it's not that bright, relatively speaking. We did try re-orienting the flash to see if that would help, but it really didn't. And there were times when I was holding the flash one hand and the camera in the other hand and the flash still wouldn't go off. I'm sure it was user error. IIRC, I was shooting in manual mode. I wonder if I somehow had the camera set outside some operating parameter of the flash. I really have no idea. My built-in flash was triggering, so I would have expected the 430 to go off, as well.

I'll dig into the book I got on Canon speedlites and learn more about them. I'm sure this is user error and the answer will be in there somewhere.

Thanks!
John

[inkista]

The red panel on the front of the 430EX II is the sensor. That has to have line-of-sight to (i.e., be facing) the pop-up flash, which is why we like the fact that the head swivels. Secondly, if there was a lot of sunlight, it can overpower the light-based signalling. Range tends to be smaller outside with wireless eTTL than indoors, where it's darker and the signal can bounce off the walls, like your TV remote.

This is why we like radio triggers enough to go all-Manual without eTTL.

[Johninbigd]

Originally Posted by inkista

The red panel on the front of the 430EX II is the sensor. That has to have line-of-sight to (i.e., be facing) the pop-up flash, which is why we like the fact that the head swivels. Secondly, if there was a lot of sunlight, it can overpower the light-based signalling. Range tends to be smaller outside with wireless eTTL than indoors, where it's darker and the signal can bounce off the walls, like your TV remote.

This is why we like radio triggers enough to go all-Manual without eTTL.

There was virtually no sunlight at all. It was pretty dark, but I did have my outside lights on, which made it about as bright as a dimly lit room. At one point I had the flash in one hand and the camera in the other and it didn't work.

However, I think I may know part of the problem. I had switched to Manual mode on the camera and I'm starting to think that has some consequences regarding the flash versus using it in Tv or Av mode. Now I just have to find out what. I bet there was a setting on the camera that I was missing that was causing the flash not to fire.

[inkista]

Ah, yes. WTF #1 of newbies to eTTL flash photography: the mode you're in on the camera affects how the flash behaves.

If you're in P mode, the camera auto-exposure system will assume in low light that you want the flash to be the main source of illumination, and in brighter light, that it will be fill.

If you're in Av or Tv mode, the AE system assumes you want to use the flash for fill.

In M, you're on your own and are controlling the flash/ambient balance by your ambient settings (iso, aperture, shutter speed), your distance from the subject, FEC (if you're in TTL), or power output (if your flash is in M).

See: Canon EOS Flash Photography Confusion.

WTF #2 is how shutter speed works. The level of light you get from the ambient is controlled by iso, aperture, and shutter speed. You should know this. If you don't know this, take the flash of the camera and learn this first. The level of light you get from the flash in your exposure is controlled by iso, aperture, subject-to-flash distance, and flash power output. The burst duration from the flash is very very short: shorter than your fastest shutter speed. Which is why making your shutter speed longer will only affect the ambient part of your exposure, not the flash part.

Two articles to help you through this:

• Strobist: Lighting 102: Assignment - Balance
• http://neilvn.com/tangents/flash-pho...g-the-shutter/

[Johninbigd]

I'm pretty clear on WTF#2. lol It's the first one that threw me off. I have no idea how to control the flash in manual mode. I had only used it in Av and Tv mode, so far. Manual mode is the next step!

Thanks for confirming that and providing those links.

John

[Johninbigd]

After reading that link, I'm still pretty confused about using the flash in Manual mode. I've read it twice and I still can't figure out how it determines when to fire the flash.

I think what I actually needed for that application was manual flash, anyway. I should have manually set the power on the flash since I wanted it to fire every time at the same intensity. I was using it as an effect, not as fill flash. Noob mistake.