Group shot of 13 people - 2x 150 w/s lamps and a handful of hotshoes...?

[gs.davies]

I've never had the opportunity to shoot a group of this size before - it's a large family gathering which I'm shooting for a friend and I'm just starting to worry slightly about the lighting set up.

I'm going to try to simply flat lighting from 45 degrees from both sides with the flash heads behind shoot through brollies and possibly try hairlighting or lighting the background for a little bit of separation using a Vivitar 285HV and my Canon 550 EX. I'll be triggering using a combination of eBay triggers and optical slaves. There'll be no other people using pop up flashes while I do this part of the shoot, so I'm not concerned about it. I'll also be metering manually for around f8 to get sufficient DOF front to back, and realise that with these lights I may have to give up some ISO to achieve that (I'm shooting a 5D Mark 2 so I have no problems with ISO 400, though I realise it's far from ideal). Finally, the ambient light levels in the room where I'll be doing this can be well controlled down so as not to contaminate the exposure unduly at a sync speed of 1/125 (I don't think the eBay triggers go much faster than that!)

I'm stuck on the background at the moment as I don't have a three metre/ten foot wide one but will have something in place by the time of the shoot. I'm aiming for a dappled grey as being a black tie shoot, I should be able to get a good mid key provided the speedlights are up to the job.

Has anyone got any experience/wisdom that they'd care to share with me on this? Am I way off track attempting the shoot with this gear? I don't have an unlimited budget to go and rent a load of stuff either - that'd negate any profit I make on this shoot!

Gary

[zona5101]

Your plan seems pretty do-able. The big monkey in the mix will be the distance you have to place your 150w/s lights. Three factors will play a big part in chewing up those 150w/s:
a) inverse square law, if you have to place them more than 10 feet away or so you will really need to push the iso to maintain f8 b) the umbrellas will eat up approx 1/2 your light output c) lighting off axis (45degrees) also consumes lighting power. A test shot under similar circumstances would be a real plus.

[Doug Sundseth]

1) If the room isn't an aircraft hangar, bounce one flash off the biggest, whitest thing you can find to place behind you and use the second as a key from high camera right or left. (If the room has light-colored, especially neutral and light colored, walls and ceilings, this is ideal.)

FWIW, I've lit stages with plenty of space for a dozen people with a single bounced SB700 (maybe 50 Ws?) at f/5.6, so you really shouldn't have to worry much.

2) If 1 doesn't work for some reason, to get even lighting across a bigger subject, move your lights back. (300 Ws plus speed lights should be plenty of power at f/8.)

3) Once you've moved your lights back, the difference in light quality between a bare head and a shoot through umbrella will be small. If that difference isn't important to you, shoot with bare heads to regain a stop of light or so.

4) Consider shooting from up high (a ladder, if the floor is flat and one is available, for instance). This allows better control of sight lines to every head simultaneously.

5) Take several shots in case somebody is blinking. If necessary, you can composite a face in from another photo.

Mostly basic stuff; hope something is actually useful.

[autofocus]

Does it have to be done inside? It might be a little easier to do outside with late afternoon light...just a thought

[scootermcq]

Originally Posted by gs.davies

Has anyone got any experience/wisdom that they'd care to share with me on this? Am I way off track attempting the shoot with this gear?

Nope... just go with your plan....

Shot with only 2 150w/s strobes with umbrellas (bounce, not shoot through). The strobes were only firing at 3/4 power & ISO 400.

This is a group photo, not art. Keep it simple. 45 degree on both sides of the group and have at it.



As far as tips go, remember glasses flare. Keep the lights as high as possible (and not get shadows in the eyes) so that the glare bounces harmlessly away below the camera.

[zona5101]

Originally Posted by scootermcq

Nope... just go with your plan....

Shot with only 2 150w/s strobes with umbrellas (bounce, not shoot through). The strobes were only firing at 3/4 power & ISO 400.

This is a group photo, not art. Keep it simple. 45 degree on both sides of the group and have at it.

excellent example Scott. Do you remember how far away you had your lights?...and what the guide number is on your stobes? I was "doin' the math' on this and found it really hard to get f8 unless the lights were close. Of course i had to guess a guide number, i picked "80".

[scootermcq]

Originally Posted by zona5101

excellent example Scott. Do you remember how far away you had your lights?...and what the guide number is on your stobes? I was "doin' the math' on this and found it really hard to get f8 unless the lights were close. Of course i had to guess a guide number, i picked "80".

The lights were approx 15 feet from the group. I would have to guess at guide, but a SB900 has the same f stop as half power depending on zoom, so I would put the GN around 200. I did a DOF calc, and if I remember correctly this was shot a f5.6, ISO400 & around 3/4 power. There is a little fall off on the back, but not bad and I was trying to keep shadows down.

[gs.davies]

Thanks for all the tips and comments on this, very much appreciated, especially the reminder about the glasses and the ladder...

The shoot MAY have to be indoors, depending on the weather. I'd much rather be prepared and ensure I can do the big group before I bring a few smaller groups indoors for portraits (which I know I can do with the kit I have).

Thanks also for the great example photo posted here - correct, it's not art but the family are paying me to produce something good they can hang on their wall, so I'm aiming at keeping it simple and saving the clever tricks for the 'ones and twos' and the kids portraits which I'd hope to sell additional prints from.

What size were the brollies you used in your photo Scott? I'm using shoot-throughs which are a little small (60" I think) and I've been meaning to get something bigger for a while. I do like the look of the bounce brollies too, a little bit more dramatic.

Bouncing off the ceiling is going to happen whatever, it's low and I doubt I'd be able to flag the lights to prevent it. Thinking again at the arrangement I'd be going for which is a row of four adults at the back standing, two older adults seated in the middle, flanked by two other adults with the five kids (aged 4 to 7) in front crouching/seated I'm going to have shoot probably at 35mm to get them all in, given the confines of the area I'll be working in - good for DOF, not so good for perspective, though I don't think I'll be working close enough to introduce distortions.

[scootermcq]

Originally Posted by gs.davies

Thanks for all the tips and comments on this, very much appreciated, especially the reminder about the glasses and the ladder...

The shoot MAY have to be indoors, depending on the weather. I'd much rather be prepared and ensure I can do the big group before I bring a few smaller groups indoors for portraits (which I know I can do with the kit I have).

Thanks also for the great example photo posted here - correct, it's not art but the family are paying me to produce something good they can hang on their wall, so I'm aiming at keeping it simple and saving the clever tricks for the 'ones and twos' and the kids portraits which I'd hope to sell additional prints from.

What size were the brollies you used in your photo Scott? I'm using shoot-throughs which are a little small (60" I think) and I've been meaning to get something bigger for a while. I do like the look of the bounce brollies too, a little bit more dramatic.

Bouncing off the ceiling is going to happen whatever, it's low and I doubt I'd be able to flag the lights to prevent it. Thinking again at the arrangement I'd be going for which is a row of four adults at the back standing, two older adults seated in the middle, flanked by two other adults with the five kids (aged 4 to 7) in front crouching/seated I'm going to have shoot probably at 35mm to get them all in, given the confines of the area I'll be working in - good for DOF, not so good for perspective, though I don't think I'll be working close enough to introduce distortions.

Those umbrellas were only 48"

I shot that group at 35mm as well

[zona5101]

Originally Posted by scootermcq

The lights were approx 15 feet from the group. I would have to guess at guide, but a SB900 has the same f stop as half power depending on zoom, so I would put the GN around 200. I did a DOF calc, and if I remember correctly this was shot a f5.6, ISO400 & around 3/4 power. There is a little fall off on the back, but not bad and I was trying to keep shadows down.

GN=200 makes it work...
10'=f20
15'=f10 (call it f11 for ease)
lose 2 stops for umbrellas = f5.6, lose a stop for 45degree now at f4 @ iso 100 push to 400 so your shooting aperture is f8 but output @ 3/4 power and your right there at f5.6...

Apologies to the OP for the slight divergence...