Speedlite Question

[Michael_2010]

I've just started exploring the power of off-camera lighting and would like to expand my capabilities. Thus far, I have just been using a desk light and a flashlight to cast some directional light across some still life type stuff, water drops, smoke, etc. Now, I would like to go a little farther with some type of external lighting equipment.

I've looked at various studio lighting kits and I'm not sure that is what I am after at this time. Would I go wrong, if I were to get a Canon 430EX II now (I don't want to spend the bucks on the 580EX II) and maybe upgraded later? Is it something I could grow with by adding additional lighting equipment, or would it just end up in my pile of expensive trial and error purchases?

Also, if I added one of those Better Beamer Flash X-tenders, would the 430EX be able to throw enough light at a bird to make a difference?

[OsmosisStudios]

The big question is what you wanna be doing with your lights.

[bhursey]

If you want to do on camera flash stuff then say a 580EXII or a 430EXII may be your best bet. However if you want to do off camera flash. There is no reason to buy a 400$ flash when you can get a flash just as powerful for cheeper. If your going off camera I would Recommend a LP160 has the same power as a 580EXII or a SB900..

LumoPro LP160 Manual Flash

You can read a review on it here:
Strobist: LumoPro LP160: Quad Sync v.2.0

It all depends on what you want to do. I use my 580EXII on camera for events and weddings and both my LP160 and my 580EXII off camera in manual for portraits.. Just remember the LP160 is not a ttl flash its full manual.

[Michael_2010]

Hmmmm....... I don't know....... maybe still life type stuff, water drops, smoke, wild birds.....

[Michael_2010]

Originally Posted by bhursey

If you want to do on camera flash stuff then say a 580EXII or a 430EXII may be your best bet. However if you want to do off camera flash. There is no reason to buy a 400$ flash when you can get a flash just as powerful for cheeper. If your going off camera I would Recommend a LP160 has the same power as a 580EXII or a SB900..

LumoPro LP160 Manual Flash

You can read a review on it here:
Strobist: LumoPro LP160: Quad Sync v.2.0

It all depends on what you want to do. I use my 580EXII on camera for events and weddings and both my LP160 and my 580EXII off camera in manual for portraits.. Just remember the LP160 is not a ttl flash its full manual.

I know so little about this topic that even deciding what is needed is extremely confusing. I've gotten into a bad habit of spending a hundred bucks on something to only later discover I should have waited and spent 200 to get something that actually does what it says it will. I would like to avoid that with lighting, if at all possible.

I would like something that would work with a wide range of situations and still be useful, if I should decide to add additional equipment. Does that make sense?

[inkista]

If you really want the most versatile speedlight, then you really should consider getting a 580EX II, or used 580EX or 550EX, instead of a 430EX II.

Here's why.

The 580EX II has a PC port. It is the only Canon EX speedlight that does. A PC port is how you can connect a sync cord, an optical slave, or certain radio triggers (though not all). If you were to purchase any other Canon EX speedlight, you would then also have to use a hotshoe-to-sync-port adapter of some kind to attach a sync cord or optical slave. A lot of radio slaves, however, connect directly to the hotshoe, so adapters may not be required.

The 580EX II and 580 EX are the only Canon EX speedlights with 360° swivel. All the other flashes swivel 180° to the left, and 90° to the right. This limits the number of choices you have for bouncing a flash. Bouncing a flash is where you aim the light at a reflective surface, such as a wall or ceiling, and use the reflected light as your illumination. This greatly diffuses and softens the light. Having 25% of your bounce surface options taken away is one reason you'd prefer having 360° swivel, as well as if you use an optical slave or the Canon proprietary light-based signalling system for off-camera flash--the sensor needs to "see" the light signal. Being able to swivel the head all the way around means the head can point one way, while the body of the flash points the other. In addition, if you tilt the camera counter-clockwise when you go into portrait mode, rather than clockwise, you'll effectively lose most of your tilt/swivel capability.

The 580EX II, 580EX, and 550EX are the most powerful of the Canon speedlights, and are typically more powerful than most 3rd party options. If you're bouncing, you want power, because you lose a lot of the light output in bouncing. Power output on a flash is rather like maximum aperture on a lens: the more light you have to work with, the more you can do. Flash output is ruled by something called the inverse square law. That means that the amount of illumination that reaches the subject is inversely proportional to the square of the distance the light has to travel. So, if you double the distance, you get one-quarter the light. If you triple the distance, you get one-ninth of the light, and so on. Power equates to reach.

The 580EX II, 580EX, 550EX also have a ton of other little features that make them easier to use in a variety of situations. The power settings go down to 1/128. Remember, power equates to reach. Being able to dial down farther means being able to bring the light in closer for, say, macro work. They have stroboscopic mode. They are master units in the Canon flash signalling system. The 580EX II also has an autothyristor mode, which can be useful in situations where metering might be thrown off. Most of these are nice-to-haves, though, not have-to-haves, in comparison with the PC port, the power, and the 360° swivel capability, imho.

And all the Canon EX units do e-TTL II, which is analogous to having auto modes on your camera, rather than just full Manual. Basically, eTTL II lets the camera automatically set the power level of your flash based on metering. The camera tells the flash to send out a "preflash" burst of a known brightness, meters the preflash, and then sets the flash's power output accordingly for the actual burst. Like most metering-based exposure automatic modes, it may not be exact or consistent, but is likely to be in the ballpark, and it'll be faster than setting it manually. So, for run'n'gun situations, like event shooting (e.g., weddings), it's handier.

For birding, you can use a better beamer and a flash, but given the distance thing, whether or not it's worth it is a matter of individual taste. I've never used a flash out in the field, basically because I like to disturb the birds as little as possible. YMMV. I've seen samples of good results with a better beamer, but I've never felt the least urge to use one, given how awkward it looks. The beamer basically assumes that you're using a supertelephoto lens, and concentrates the light with a simple fresnel lens (kind of like how a lighthouse does). But it's still going to be on-camera direct flash.

To me, having at least one Canon EX speedlight means that you can do both on- and off-camera work with it. If you never plan to do on-camera work, then possibly going for an all-manual flash that's much less expensive is worthwhile, but for most people, I think it's better to go for one of the less-expensive manual flashes for strobist work as additional flashes once you know what the limitations are.

I'd also recommend that if you can afford it, to go for a 580EX II or 580EX if you can, simply because it's pretty easy to "outgrow" a 430EX if you get serious about flash photography. But if you cannot afford one, then a 430EX II or 430EX is a perfectly adequate workhorse flash and is unlikely to make you regret purchasing it. Do not, however, go for a 420EX or any of the EZ flashes if you plan on doing Strobist work: those are e-TTL only flashes, where you have no way of manually adjusting the power level if the flash is off-camera.

[jml79]

One good flash for on camera work is enough but if you plan to only do off camera work then the LP160 is a great looking choice or as a second flash. The advantage of buying all Canon flashes is that you will be able to use whatever control system your camera has for power control. A Canon flash will also allow you to mount it on your camera and use the automatic TTL system. I don't know the Canon wireless flash system well so maybe someone who does can compare it to having manual flashes.

For the stuff you mentioned (freezing water drops) do not buy any sort of studio or AC powered flash. Because of how they control the flash power they will not be fast enough. Only battery powered strobes will do that unless you get into some really expensive gear. Battery powered strobes control the power by flashing for a shorter period of time. As fast as 1/60,000 and more in some cases at low powers. Studio flashes control how much power is charged into the capacitor and have almost the same (comparativly slow) flash duration no matter how low you set them.

[jml79]

And it's inkista to the rescue with Canon knowledge as I was typing. So there you go, get at least one Canon 5XX series flash and get manual flashes later.

[Michael_2010]

Thanks for all the info and that makes sense.

Much as I feared, going cheap will cause a person to hit a wall quickly and be searching for another piece of equipment to finish the job. Going for the better unit will have most situations covered out of the box and additional equipment can be added for specialized needs and enhancements.

The info about the cheap studio lighting kits is also very informative and helped me decide that those would not give me what I want. Maybe as ancillary lighting down the road, if the need should arise, but not as my primary source of lighting.

[inkista]

Originally Posted by Michael_2010

... The info about the cheap studio lighting kits is also very informative and helped me decide that those would not give me what I want. Maybe as ancillary lighting down the road, if the need should arise, but not as my primary source of lighting.

I think you may have misread something, then. You'll also note we're ALL saying that the cheap manuals are definitely better for the off-camera work.

What's actually ironic is that these cheap all-manual studio flashes, like the LP-160 will actually give you MORE for shooting in a studio setup, Strobist-style than a 580EX II would. And for a lot less cost. (and there are also monolights that cost less than a 580EX II).

The thing here is versatility. An all-manual flash sucks for on-camera and run'n'gun work because it lacks eTTL.

However, for off-camera work, it's a better tool. The LP-160 not only has a PC connector AND a hotshoe, it also offers a 1/8" minijack sync port (a much more robust and cheaper connection than PC connectors), and a built-in dumb optical slave. Its power is roughly the same as the 580EXs, and 270° swivel isn't quite as big of a handicap on a lightstand as it is for on-camera work, because you have more choices on where you can place the flash.

In addition, most of us when we do go the Strobist off-camera route, do so by using cheap radio triggers, like Cactus V4s or Yongnuo RF-602s. If you do end up using one of these methods for better range/reliability and no line of sight issues, as is inherent in Canon's signalling system, you won't have eTTL or high-speed sync or remote commanding, anyway, whether or not you paid for a 580EX II that has it built in. The only way to access those features off-camera is to spend bucketfuls of cash and get TTL-capable radio triggers and probably other Canon EX units as well.

For example, with a T1i, to get a two-light setup with eTTL capability using Canon's proprietary system, minimally, you'd have to get one 550EX/580EX, or 580EX II as an on-camera master, and two off-camera slave EX units (say, 430EX IIs. That would come to about $900. And you'd have range, reliability, and line-of-sight issues outdoors.

To do an all-manual two-light setup with LP160s, you'd need twoLP160s ($160x2 = $320), and a Yongnuo RF-602 1Tx/2Rx set ($60). So, for less than half the price of the Canon setup, you can have one more additional light if you go with all-manual gear, and you wouldn't have the range/reliability/line-of-sight issues with radio.

Now, the $900 setup gives you some advantages: remote power level commanding of the slave flashes (from the camera back). Flash control from the camera back. e-TTL, and high-speed sync. But it's still a heckuva lot of money, and once you take the lights outside, it's a whole 'nother story. Yes, you could just as easily add the $60 RF-602s to the Canon flashes, too, but then you lose all the advantages of the proprietary system, anyway, so you'd probably want to be using TTL-capable radio triggers, and those are roughly $250 a pop for Tx/Rx/transceivers, and you'd need three, so an additional $750.

Most of the time, you're thinking that for studio work, you just need one or two lights off-camera, but in reality, the minimum you need for studio work is usually three (key, fill, rim).

The question "What flash should I buy?" isn't nearly as easy to answer as "what lens/camera should I buy?", because there are a ton more "it depends" factors. And you know how many of those there were with a camera/lens decision...