Looking for help with Sunrise shots!

[Sarah-]

Hello,

I'm new to the forum so please bare with me if I make any mistakes! I have recently brought a new camera Canon Powershot sx120 IS. It's the first camera I've had with any sort of manual controls. In a bid to get used to this camera I've been taking pictures of the sunrise every morning. I've had no good results with the 'auto' functions and only slightly better results with a more manual setting. Best setting so far has been the Sunset scene mode!

I'm basically looking for advice on manual settings, what sort of iso and so on should I be trying to use for this kind of setting? Any help would be greatly appreciated. It's not a super SLR camera as I'm on a budget but I want to try my best with it anyway!

Thank you!

[zona5101]

Choosing your iso/shutter & apreture will vary based on what you want to accomplish. So you've got a nice looking sunset there. Look at your exif data and see how you exposed it. For your next scenescape you might want to a) pick a low iso i.e 200 b) use an aperture near the middle of your lens' range say f8 or f11 c) begin shooting images changing your shutter speed with each exposure. If your camera has a light meter that indicates how over or under exposed the shot will be, make note of that and the actual image. The point being, your meter doesn't always know best!

[Sarah-]

Thanks for the advice, I have basically been trying every setting I can find for one scene, without really knowing what any of them do. I only have a basic understanding of most, which is why I am here to learn! I'm going to read the manual and see how to change all the things you've mentioned and try again tomorrow morning... hm or maybe have a lie in this weekend and try on monday!

Any other help is very appreciated. I'll keep checking back.

[zona5101]

here's a good starter...
Learning about Exposure – The Exposure Triangle

[navcom]

Hi Sarah! For some reason your photo is not showing up in the thread any more. Was it removed from Photobucket?

Unfortunately there is no perfect auto setting or scene mode for sunrise/sunset photographs. Also, they are a little tricky to learn how to shoot when you are starting out. There are a couple things you are battling against...

First, something referred to as high dynamic range. Dynamic range is the range between the darkest spot and lightest spot in any given image. The human eye can see tons more range than your camera can. That is why when we look in the shadow under a tree, our eyes see all the details under the tree but the camera just records blackness. And the wider the dynamic range, the worse it gets. Sunsets and sunrises are some of the highest dynamic ranges you will encounter for obvious reasons.

So, knowing that our camera can only record a certain range of brightness, we encounter another stumbling block...what do we expose for? The foreground or the background? This is where your auto settings and scene modes fail you on your camera. Your camera will try to get a proper exposure based on an average of all the brightness levels in your image. This usually results in a rather overexposed and colorless sky (much brighter and colorless than you saw in person) and a weird-looking foreground with some detail showing.

The only way to counter this high dynamic range stumbling block is to find a way to bring the range into something more manageable. The best way (in my opinion) is using a graduated neutral density filter. This is a filter that is rectangle in shape and clear on the bottom and gradually becoming darker from the center up. It mounts to the front of your lens with an adapter. If your camera isn't a DSLR, you can still hand-hold it in front of your lens. You position the transition area near the horizon so you "push back" the brightness of the sky and sun...kind of like putting sunglasses on only half your image. This allows you to get better exposed image.

Another way is to use HDR techniques such as taking three different exposures (over, under, and perfectly metered)...then combine them in Photoshop or other software to average the exposures out.

Another thing that you must do if you want colors in your sky is to purposefully underexpose the image. If you let the light meter do it's thing, it will almost always overexpose the sky slightly which will wash out the colors. So your best option is to stick with manual exposure mode (or even aperture priority). This will give you total control over your exposure.

The final element is white balance. It's tempting to use the "sunlight" setting but it will usually contribute to a lack of color in your sky. I recommend custom balancing it on site if your camera allows you to. Or the easiest is to use the "shade" setting. This will give you the warmest colors of all the preset settings. If you use RAW mode for recording your images, you can change the white balance very easily after the fact as well.

Sunsets and sunrises can be challenging but the rewards are outstanding when you get the "formula" down. This is why they are my favorite genre of landscape photography.

Hope that helps!

[Sarah-]

Very helpful, thank you. I edited first post to show the picture again (now been edited slightly in photoshop). Navcom you have suspected right without even looking! Most of them appeared to come out too bright with the white balance a bit off. There is a custom setting for white balance, I was unsure on how to use it correctly. After reading up I assume that I select that option when my shot is lined up, hit the "display" button and it takes a reading and adjusts its self accordingly. Sadly I think it'll rain this morning and be cloudy but it might make for a nice atmospheric shot if I can keep dry!

After looking at the Exif data the sunset mode gave me :
F 4.3
1/1000 sec
ISO 160

It's going to be a lot of trial and error. Once I understand the camera controls I think and hope the pictures can improve. Reading the Exposure triangle link zona5101 posted has been a good insight as well. Thanks again and I'll let you know how I get on!

Edit: Was too cloudy this morning. I think I understand white balance now and have been looking for a grey card to use. I'm still a bit unsure on filters, I don't think I can mount any to this camera. Also can I be damaging the camera pointing it at the sun?! Just read that it can be a bad idea and now I'm worried. Many thanks!

[navcom]

A couple other tips after looking at your EXIF data. While your exposure itself is going to have the greatest effect on your image (improper exposure, improper image, etc.), your individual aperture, shutter speed, and ISO will have very little effect on your image colors as long as the result of all three gets you your proper exposure (that triangle thing ). Individually they will effect your image quality though. My advice for you is to set your camera to manual mode (M) and then first set your ISO, followed by your aperture, and finally set your shutter speed to whatever gets you your proper exposure. Take a shot and if it's not exposed properly, simply keep adjusting your shutter speed until you get what you need. A tripod is a must here...as it is for just about all landscape photography.

For landscapes, you want to use the lowest ISO you can. In most cameras that is ISO 100. You used 160 which is pretty good. As your ISO gets faster, you start to introduce grain into the image, so the slower (smaller number) you shoot, the better the image.

For your aperture in this scene you used f/4.3 This is pretty close to wide open. For most landscape photography you will be concerned with depth of field. You want as much of the scene in focus as you can get. The smaller the aperture (larger the number), the greater your depth of field. At f/4.3 your depth of field will be very small. In this scene I notice that the clouds and sun are a bit fuzzy. I think this is because your camera was trying to focus on the water somewhere. With the wide-open f/4.3 aperture setting, the depth of field is very small making the sky seem a bit out of focus. A smaller aperture setting might have corrected it. Just my guess though.

But you also have to be careful. After f/16 and smaller you will start to get diffraction, which will actually start to soften your image...make it a bit fuzzy. So there is a happy medium. I generally start with something between f/8 and f/13 for landscapes. I then adjust as needed. I almost never go with a wider aperture than f/8 (smaller number). I will go to f/16 or even f/22 if I really (desparately!) need depth of field for a particular composition, but it's rare.

As for shutter speed....in landscape photography, it's not that important (the exception being if you have an object in the composition that is moving and you want to capture it without blur). Because of this, you set the aperture and ISO first and let the shutter speed fall where it needs to be to get a good exposure.

Hope that helps!

[Sarah-]

Yes you've been very helpful! Thank you for all you advice it's really made me understand what I am doing alot more. I'm starting to grasp the controls for this camera as well so it's getting better. Was another overcast cloudy morning so no new shots yet! I have been testing out the custom white balance, looking for things on scene that are white or trying to use a bit of card. I can see the difference it makes but until I can get a proper card it's still going to be a bit off I think. What's the difference with white and grey cards? When would you ever need a black one?

This is going a bit off topic and I'm sorry for that! The lowest ISO my camera can do is 80, which is the default for 'Sunset' Scene mode. F/8 is highest so I guess I'll try that next time the sun can be seen at sunrise!

[navcom]

ISO 80 and f/8 are perfect for landscape photography. As for gray/white cards, I'm not an expert at using them. I have a custom "white card" that I made myself that works great. I took an old UV filter, placed it on a coffee filter from the auto coffee maker, traced it, cut out the circle, and glued it to the outside of the UV. Now I just screw on the UV "white card" to my lens and do my custom white balance. Works wonderful for most situations. But quite honestly I don't use it that much. For most of my work I select a preset that will get me close and then make final adjustments in post-processing. I shoot exclusively in RAW which allows complete control over white balance settings in post-processing.

[Sarah-]

It was a clear morning today so I finally got a chance to try out some of the new found knowledge. One thing that seems to be clear with most the shots I took was, they either seemed to be too bright or too dark. I tend to prefer the darker ones but are they too dark?

Edit: See next post

Maybe it's just down to personal tastes. With a better understanding of the manual controls and ideal settings for sunrise it's definitely improving! So thank you again.