Over/Under photos

[Cussy]

For the last year or so I have been exploring the connection between the shallow underwater world and the landscape. Without making excuses over/unders are very difficult, but I think I'm close to nailing the technique.

So question is simple; as an approach/technique/subject does this work?



I want to take better photos, so suggestions for what to include/exclude in the photos would be most welcome.

Nikon D80, Tokina 10-17mm at 10mm end, Ikelite housing with 6inch dome port, 2xInon z240 strobes. Taken at River Coe, Scotland. I'm guessing here (will check later) ISO 200, 1/60th, f11 (my usual starting point for over/unders).
Rob

[wulf]

A fascinating idea although I'm not completely bowled over by this particular instance. The under portion has come out looking crisp and colourful, although it would be better still if there were an actual point of interest rather than just "nice rocks". However, there is a lot of blur in the crossover area, which takes up a large proportion of the image, and the above portion is again out of focus.

I don't know much about the challenges of this approach (would love to see a photo of your set up) but my two suggestions at this stage would be:

1. Can you do it with less of a fish eye effect?

2. Is it possible to take the picture in portrait orientation, so the crossover zone is a less overwhelming proportion of the image?

Wulf

[Cussy]

Thanks Wulf,
I wasn't sure which example to pick. I went for this one as I thought the image shows that the river is flowing quite fast - maybe that's a mistake.

I tend to take about 90% of my over/unders as portrait, so is this one any better?



From feedback I've had elsewhere landscape orientation seems to be preferred, but then it's difficult to get anything of interest underwater in the shot.

If you are interested in the technicalities, over/unders are a pain. A dome port creates a virtual image that is 2-3 times the dome radius. In a stream like the one above I need focus from almost the dome radius through to infinity (15cm - infinity!!!). Add in water clarity and you basically have to use a fisheye - but as you point out it shouldn't be obvious. A flash underwater will work 2m max and with a shallow bottom I use a rule of thumb that 1m is far enough.

Here is a picture of my rig:


I've got different stobes/flash now and don't tend to use as long arms as these. The underwater housing also has a flat port on and not my 6" dome.

So any other pointers?
Rob

[wulf]

I can see that portrait orientation makes the fisheye effect more obvious. I wonder if you could minimise that by centering the crossover point and then perhaps cropping in to a squarer ratio?

Have you ever managed to capture any shots with fish or other underwater creatures adding to the "below" scene?

Wulf

[Cussy]

Only managed creatures once:



And then I over-exposed the above water! Because of water clarity it is asking a lot for a wild animal/fish to get that close unless it is some major aggregation and we don't tend to get those in the UK. I've had to concentrate on rocks as they don't move.

One of the big problems is the number of locations that have great underwater is limited. The number of locations that have great above water using a fisheye at water level are limited. The number of locations that have both are almost zero.

I do have other examples though with plants or waterfalls as a focus:


I also have examples of ducks and geese, but they aren't online at the mo.
Rob

[dlambert]

Very cool photos. I prefer the ones that don't show tons of fisheye distortion, though.

[Cussy]

I should have enough image and resolution to correct the fisheye, but will loose quite a bit of the image. The ones that show it tend to be ones where I have pointed the camera downwards. I'll consider this in future and frame accordingly. Over/unders don't work with my 24mm as you loose all contrast underwater as you're looking through too much water; it's use the fisheye or nothing at all. Thanks for the feedback.
Rob

[cleamon]

David DuChemin just posted an over/under on his blog. PixelatedImage Blog

[wulf]

That one works nicely because it has the guys in the canoe (kayak?) as the subject in the top portion. I think a point of interest is definitely worth aiming for (even if you have to plant one yourself!).

Wulf