At the Mall today - Huh?

[BCampbell]

Photographer's rights in the UK is a hot issue right now. Things there are much mroe strict than here in the states. What I'm going to say may not apply if you're outside of the U.S., and I'm not a lawyer, but these are good guidelines to follow.

You can always shoot on private property that is open to the public -- unless there is already a clearly visible "no photography" sign or the like posted. It's this "open to the public" bit that's tricky. Malls are private property but they are open to the public, so there are some expectations of some of the freedoms of a public space.

If you are on private property that is open to the public and you are approached and told to stop shooting, you should stop shooting. Continuing to do so is considered trespassing. Owners of private property or their representatives can ask you to stop shooting or to leave, and you should comply. If they ask you to delete your photos, you are not obligated to comply, but you should stop shooting and leave. Under no circumstances are they allowed to confiscate any of your equipment.

Note also that taking a photo is different than publishing it. You can get into all kinds of tricky legal situations by publishing photos of people or photos taken on private property.

In this case of the OP at this mall, if this were the U.S., and assuming there is no clearly posted sign prohibiting photos, I would feel safe bringing a camera at any time and shooting until I were approached by security. If they asked me to stop shooting, I'd turn the camera off and stop shooting; if they asked that I delete photos, I would refuse and leave, they're free to call the authorities while I'm leaving.

For one thing, you guys really need to stop and do a little research. ( yes, some of this is US law, but a lot of does apply to UK law)

Secondly, they can't ask you to delete the photos.

Third, in certain situations, YES you can publish the photos... for example: a news story.

Finally,

Read this
Everyone Has a Right to Take Photographs in Public Places (U.K.)! | Photo Attorney

The last line is very important

Officers do not have the power to delete digital images or destroy film at any point during a search.

If the POLICE don't have the authority to delete images, then who the hell are the 'rent-a-cop' idiots at the mall think they are?

Again, people... know your rights.
These are good resources.
USATODAY.com - New digital camera? Know how, where you can use it
Bert P. Krages Attorney at Law Photographer's Rights Page
Photographers' Guide to Privacy
http://www.kantor.com/blog/Legal-Rig...tographers.pdf

Good quote: ( yes, i know US law here)

Further, they cannot demand your camera or your digital media or film. Well, they can demand it, but you are under no obligation to give it to them. In fact, only an officer of the law or court can take it from you, and then only with a court order. And if they try or threaten you? They can be charged with theft or coercion, and you may even have civil recourse. Cool. (For details, see "The Photographer's Right.")

THE VERY NEXT PARAGRAPH!!!

You can take photos any place that's open to the public, whether or not it's private property. A mall, for example, is open to the public. So are most office buildings (at least the lobbies). You don't need permission; if you have permission to enter, you have permission to shoot.

You can be on private property (a mall or office-building lobby), or even be trespassing and still legally take pictures.

[Digidave]

There's been several issues brought up here but the main one being that it's on private property. Malls are privately owned & they can make their own rules. The fact that it's not posted really doesn't matter to much, & yes, they can make up rules as they go along. In this particular case, I don't think they could just come up & arrest you. If they were to give you a warning & then you still took pictures, you could then be arrested or asked to leave just for defying their request.

As far as being in a place like Wal-Mart or some place similar. Again, you are on private property. They don't even like it when you are going through their store & writing down prices for comparative shopping. I was in a major store, I can't recall which one it was, & was questioned as to what I was doing when they saw me writing in a notepad. When I told them, they asked me to leave. Seemed rather silly to me but if I would have argued the point & continued what I was doing, I would have been arrested, not for documenting their prices but for defying their order to leave.

Originally Posted by Digidave

There's been several issues brought up here but the main one being that it's on private property. Malls are privately owned & they can make their own rules. The fact that it's not posted really doesn't matter to much, & yes, they can make up rules as they go along. In this particular case, I don't think they could just come up & arrest you. If they were to give you a warning & then you still took pictures, you could then be arrested or asked to leave just for defying their request.

As far as being in a place like Wal-Mart or some place similar. Again, you are on private property. They don't even like it when you are going through their store & writing down prices for comparative shopping. I was in a major store, I can't recall which one it was, & was questioned as to what I was doing when they saw me writing in a notepad. When I told them, they asked me to leave. Seemed rather silly to me but if I would have argued the point & continued what I was doing, I would have been arrested, not for documenting their prices but for defying their order to leave.

Malls in the USA are considered "public".

USATODAY.com - New digital camera? Know how, where you can use it

[candidrachel]

I never considered a shopping centre Privately Owned Property.It just never occurred to me. Talking to friends and other shoppers it was like what's the problem? I always thought it was a bit like a park - for the people by the people. I mean it's not like someones living room.

I'm bummed. I live in such a small town with limited places worth photographing. How the heck are aspiring photographers supposed to get experience and practice? Shopping centres have such wonderful opportunities!

Thanks for your input.

Live and learn. Next!

[BCampbell]

Originally Posted by maxharvard

Malls in the USA are considered "public".

Even with scare quotes, that's not technically true.

They are private property.

They are open to the public.

This creates a sort of middle ground where you are understood to be allowed some rights of a public space but the property owner is also allowed some rights of a private space.

In short, you are allowed to take photos in a mall unless expressly prohibited. If you are approached and told to stop shooting, you should stop shooting.

It's fairly basic, once we nail down the "private property open to the public" bit.

Originally Posted by BCampbell

Even with scare quotes, that's not technically true.

They are private property.

They are open to the public.

This creates a sort of middle ground where you are understood to be allowed some rights of a public space but the property owner is also allowed some rights of a private space.

In short, you are allowed to take photos in a mall unless expressly prohibited. If you are approached and told to stop shooting, you should stop shooting.

It's fairly basic, once we nail down the "private property open to the public" bit.

Fair enough, but they can't take anything from you... or make you delete the images.

only the police can take it from you and even then it requires a judges order (subpoena)

[Digidave]

Taken from the link that Maxharvard gave.

You can take any photo that does not intrude upon or invade the privacy of a person, if that person has a reasonable expectation of privacy. Someone walking in a mall or on the street? Fair game. Someone standing in a corner, looking at his new Prozac prescription? No.

They're probably thinking that if they allow photography, how would they ever be able to control who, where, or when you are photographing. Let's face it, in today's society, if somebody saw a picture on the internet of themselves buying a prescription for Prozac they would sue the photographer, the pharmacy, & the mall owners. Whether they won the lawsuit or not means nothing. It would cost a lot of money to defend yourselves & it's just easier to disallow it all together.

Let's say you're banned by the local mall for taking photos there, but you go back anyway and take more. Now you're trespassing. But unless the photos you take violate someone's expectation of privacy, your taking photos isn't illegal — only being there.

This was the point I was trying to make. Malls are privately owned properties that allow public access. They can make any rule they wish to make. If you don't agree with it, then you can fight them in court about that particular rule. That rule would have to violate one of your Constitutional Rights. For example: They don't allow blacks to sit at the counter or the front of the bus. Photography on a privately owned property, with public access, is not a right, it is a privilege. A privilege that can be taken away by merely asking you to leave.

[Photostudent]

I was sitting in my car in a mall parking lot waiting for my wife to come out when another car backed into my rear fender. We were on vacation at the time in a rental car so I called police to report the accident (just so that I have a record for rental insurance). I was told that the police would not be dispatched or a report provided since I was on private property. My point is that even though it may be considered to be a "public" space, but it is still treated as private for certain things.

Luckily the rental company insurance did not really care who backed into whom. As long as I had purchased the insurance at the time of rental I was covered for any damage to the car.