Copyright Help!

[CarlyHarrison]

I have an unusual question that has divided a few of my photo friends and I'm stuck on how to answer it. I don't even know if this would be the right forum for it. Any help would be appreciated.

Some background: I am a portrait and wedding photographer. I have each of my clients sign a copyright release form (that allows me to use their image for promotional reasons, including sharing them on social networking sites) and my wedding clients sign an additional contract (part of which states that after 3 months they receive a DVD with all images and the copyrights to their images). After each shoot (and with their permission), I post about 7-15 images to my blog, Flickr, Facebook, etc., for two reasons: one, they and their friends have a sneak peak at their session, and two, so it gets my name out there with people they know. I have my logo on the picture to copyright it (as well as copyrighting it on Flickr) so they can't just copy that picture to their sites without my permission. I have never had any problem with the forms or with posting the pictures.

Recently, I received an email from the mother of one of my brides with this request: "My husband and I are respectfully asking you not to post any images of us on Flicker.com or any other public internet site. The images taken of us as parents-of-the bride are regarded by us as personal. We would rather not have them available on the internet for anyone to see and/or download. Your consideration in this matter is appreciated."

My initial instinct is to respect their request take them down. However, another part of me is very offended by that request and wants to explain to her that she does not own the copyright, and her daughter doesn't own the copyright until mid-August. Once the bride owns the rights, if she wants to take them down, I will. But yet another part of me is saying that since she didn't sign a contract or any forms, what rights does she have? When I spoke with the bride and groom about the contract, they said that they didn't have any problems with my methods, nor did they believe their family and friends would have problems.

At this point I am very confused. Here are my main questions:
1. What rights does she have as a subject of my photography? Can she demand to have images of her taken down, even though I am using these images per my contract?
2. If she does not have the right, how can I explain that to her without making her mad and (possibly) losing future business from her or her friends?
3. Is there language I can put into my contracts that addresses this problem? Has someone else encountered this problem? (I will be speaking with the lawyer that helped me draw up the contract anyway, but I wanted other professional's opinion on what you use in your contracts.)

[m.c.adams]

If they signed a contract or release, then you should be able to use the images. Legally, no one owns the copyright until the photos are registered with the federal copyright office. Personally, I would probably honor their request, or crop them out, or use a different shot.
Mark

[OsmosisStudios]

If you can, choose another shot or crop. That makes the customer happy and still gets your work out where it needs to be.

However, there are instances where this simply wont be possible, and at that point you have to analyze your options.

First off: when you say that you give the copyright to the bride/groom, is that FULL copyright, or just use rights? If it's the former, then you would have to take them down IF the bride/groom ask you to. It also means that the photos arent yours anymore and that youre losing out. If it's the latter, then good: tell her to go jump off a cliff (in a nicer tone, of course) and keep them up.

Ultimately, shes not the one who signed the contract and therefore has no say. She was at an event that she knew was going to be photographed, was part of the main focus of that event and then doesnt like having her picture anywhere? Tough $#!&.

[freybear3]

My opinion - i would honor their request.

I would do so, because a happy customer is a returning customer.

But you are right, you own the copyrights to the photos. you can do whatever you want with them.


How did they know that the photos were posted online?

[zenimagery]

it's pretty much a given to take the photos down, it is your reputation you're putting out there. you don't want to be the photographer who doesn't listen to a client. that said, what a douche. :P i would probably never deal with that client again.

[digirebelva]

Originally Posted by m.c.adams

Legally, no one owns the copyright until the photos are registered with the federal copyright office.

Not quite right...you own the copyright as soon as you snap the picture...registering them simply allows you to recover more in damages should the image be used without your permission.
"If a registered work is later infringed, the creator can recover actual damages (the fee that would normally have been paid for the use), as well as Statutory (Punitive) Damages and legal fees. A work that is infringed and has not been registered, can only generate the Actual Damages. This means that, in most cases, the cost of the suit far exceeds the recoverable moneys."

[CarlyHarrison]

Thank you all for your replies - this makes my decision a whole lot easier. I will take down the images from my sites. I'm a little disappointed, but there doesn't seem to be a whole lot I can do without pissing them off and potentially losing business.

That said, is there any way to respond to the email (politely) that I took down the images per their request, but this is not something I normally do, nor would I prefer doing since they are not the client and they do not own the images? I really can't see a way without (once again) pissing them off and/or potentially losing business.

To answer questions:
Osmosis, I give them a shared copyright (they can use the pictures and so can I, but neither one of us can sell the image without the other's permission). There has only been once case where someone asked to buy the image (local magazine), but the bride and groom of that wedding were more than happy. And your argument of her knowing I was taking her picture and just now demanding I take pictures down is what most of my friends have been saying - tough cookies.

Freybear: I have been trying to figure out how they found out about the sites. I have my blog on my business card, and the bride and groom (her daugheter) are friends of mine on facebook, so she could have shown the pictures to her family. But flickr? I don't really advertise that one (because it is sooo disorganized) and it's really there for hosting the images.

Zen: Agreed. On all counts.

[SusanH1970]

Originally Posted by CarlyHarrison

Freybear: I have been trying to figure out how they found out about the sites. I have my blog on my business card, and the bride and groom (her daugheter) are friends of mine on facebook, so she could have shown the pictures to her family. But flickr? I don't really advertise that one (because it is sooo disorganized) and it's really there for hosting the images.

Zen: Agreed. On all counts.

I was curious, too. So, I simply googled "Carly Harrison Photography". First thing that shows up is your Flickr stream.

[RexK_Cozumel]

Originally Posted by m.c.adams

If they signed a contract or release, then you should be able to use the images. Legally, no one owns the copyright until the photos are registered with the federal copyright office. Personally, I would probably honor their request, or crop them out, or use a different shot.
Mark

That is not true at all. A photo is copyrighted the moment the photographer takes the picture. Now if you want to protect that copyright then it is best to register it with the copyright office. But you can still go after someone for copyright infringement even if the photo is not registered. It is all a matter of being able to prove it is really your picture.

Anyways as for the OP's questions. First off why in the world would you give away the copyrights to the photos? That is just insane. But as for your question about the parents legally they have no rights at all to ask you to take down the photos. As long as you are not using the photos for commercial usage you do not need a model release and usage agreement. However, they most likely will not understand this at all and will badmouth you to all their friends if you do not do what they want. Your call as to what is more important to you.

[Jim Poor]

OK, without reading all the replies I might repeat some things, but there is a lot of "blind leading the blind" going on here with (I hope) good intentions and BAD advice. I'm pretty baffled at the complete and total lack of understanding of what a copyright is among "professional" photographers. How on earth can you be in the business of photgraphing people (or anything for that matter) and not know these things?

First, "legally" you own the copyright the instant the photo is made. You don't need your clients to give sign a copyright release. You may need them to sign a model release however. The real kicker here is that nobody can sign a model release for an adult (barring a few, rare exceptions) other than the adult in question.

So, an agreement with the bride and groom that allows you to use their images as samples has no bearing on whether or not you may use images showing other people.

Next up, when you give the images to your clients after a set period of time, you shouldn't be giving / transferring the copyright to the images. Granting them "unlimited personal use" to the images is a more sound alternative.

1. What rights does she have as a subject of my photography? Can she demand to have images of her taken down, even though I am using these images per my contract?

She has the "right to privacy" the only way you can legally (without a model release) use images showing her is in an editorial sense. Using them to promote your work is commercial (though admittedly on the cusp) and therefore requires a model release.

2. If she does not have the right, how can I explain that to her without making her mad and (possibly) losing future business from her or her friends?

Irrelevant, as she DOES have the right.

. Is there language I can put into my contracts that addresses this problem? Has someone else encountered this problem? (I will be speaking with the lawyer that helped me draw up the contract anyway, but I wanted other professional's opinion on what you use in your contracts.)

Nope, but you could ask for model releases from those whose photos you want to use in the future. You may even choose to add some form of compensation (like a discounted parents' album in this case, or something similar).