What are my rights in this situation?

[syar]

Ok, so one of the main reasons that I got more into photography and aided my decision to by a DSLR was to take photo's of my local cricket club that I am a member of. I went there over a month ago and got some pics, I got home, edited them and put them on flickr and the club's facebook page. A few days after however I got an email from the club basically telling me that they liked the photo's but I should of asked permission (doh, I forgot to do that) this was due to the club having child protection things to worry about and even though I was photographing the senior teams and there where no under 18's in the picture they still had to be careful. I sent an e-mail back apologizing and told them that I fully support there child protection rules and that if they requested any of my photo's to be took down I would do so. I got a reply saying that the photo's were fine and they really liked them I just needed to ask next time.

On Sunday I went back to the ground to watch a Twenty20 match that my cousin and uncle where involved in (without the camera) and saw the team secretary who had e-mailed me, we talked about the situation and he mentioned that he was happy for me to take the photo's but again explained his position. He said that I could call myself the 'club photographer' if I wanted to and that he would like me to take some photo's of various things including team photo's. So all good from here. Here is the bit which got me a little annoyed, He said that because of the child protection rules that they have to follow he would prefer it if I didn't upload my photo's to flickr, which is were they first saw the photo's posted (he didn't mention facebook but I assume that was included) but instead upload them to the club's website that is hosted by play-cricket.com. Now as far as I know the only people who will see the photo's will be club members as you have to be registered with the club to be on the site (all new registrations have to be approved with the administrator). This will greatly limit who will see my work. He was saying that it may help people join the club as they will see all the cool photo's and will want to play themselves. I just feel it might be a step backwards. Photography isn't my job but it is a hobby and one that I want people to see. Is there any rights that I have to be able to upload some to flickr? or will I just have to talk to the club if I take something I really like to have just that one available to the outside world as it were?

One last note. I am starting to get to a point where family and friends of the players are seeing my photo's whether it be on the club's website or on my MacBook that I take with me most games. I have been asked buy player's parents and relatives for prints of my photo's. All this is great but can the club stop me from selling my work? can they ask for a cut of the profit. I am sure they can't but being new to all this I need to know where I stand

[OsmosisStudios]

An interesting situation, for sure.

If the club has a membership that you have to pay for, then they can pretty much tell you just about anything: you're on their turf. That being said, provided that your photos arent breaking this under-18s ruling, there should be no reason that the club wouldnt want the pictures posted externally, unless they see them as being "THEIR" pictures, and not "YOUR" pictures.

By telling you that can you be the "club photographer", or by simply being a members-only club, they could be assuming some kind of copyright control. I'd ask Jim.

[idcrewdawg]

Read your club's by-laws. If it doesn't state in there about the photography, then I would say the guy can piss up a rope. They are your pictures, unless you give up the rights to them. With all that in mind, if you are on private property, or a restricted access venue, then they might be able to limit the pictures, but again it should be clearly spelled out in their by-laws. On top of all that, if they want to post the pictures on their site, they should probably have a model release for each person clearly identifiable.

[FoG]

No ! Any phto's you take of individual players etc are your work solely I can see their pont about the kid images and agree it should only be their site but if they are happy for you to do photo's if you speak to them . Individual photo's are your work your time etc etc and as you are already a memeber paying them why should you pay them more. Stand your ground they would not have these shots if it was not for you so stand your ground and say any group images etc fine but individual noway they are yours alone and between you and the parents.. group images would be worth looking into for the club and maybe staff etc etc .. but if they expect it for free then there HAS to be a pay off to you and the individual pics are your bargainig chip.

To be hionest I think you will find the club accepting not many clubs will have a photographer good enough to warrant requests for work who works for them in their spare time for free.

[ChristopherCoy]

I know nothing about the legalities of this sort of thing, but I find it odd that they wanted you to take them down from Flickr, but would allow you to put them on THEIR website....

[Sime]

IF you didn't pay to get into the ground, and can walk in freely to a public match / game / display - and there are no signs saying "NO PHOTOS" ..there is nothing to stop you from taking or subsequently putting the photos online for personal use (flickr etc) I don't subscribe to this whole "world scared of people taking photos of children" nonsense.. Though, If they have a club rule and it is posted on the by-laws for the ground somewhere - you should follow it... (It's not a law of the land)

Selling the photos to papers - no problem. To friends, again I'd suggest no problems at all, if someone in one of those photos sees it and complains, you might have some explaining to do... But it's very very unlikely...

Where you could run into trouble is if you sell a photo to say, a cricket bat company and they use a photo of one of the cricketers on their label / promo - then you'd be up for some cash / profit share deal with the club / player I'd guess.

What would I do?

I'd go to the club secretary with a small proposal, outline all the possibilities in which your images may be used, leave it with him and get him to sign it / get it back to you... Then you're covered... Don't pressure him, Don't be angry when he says no - keep on trying.

Sime

[sk66]

I agree with Sime..
I think your biggest problem is you are a member of the Cricket Club, and by association they feel that what you do reflects on the club.
In fact if it's public then you can take pictures of just about anyone doing anything and do whatever you want with them (other than sell for advertising)...

Now, as I understand it, the rules ARE a bit different than they are here in the USA...definitely get some clarification on your specific laws...

[RexK_Cozumel]

Ask a lawyer in your area.. seeking legal advice on an internet photography forum just seems silly to me. Given there might be some lawyers on here laws are different from state to state and country to country, so it would be best to consult a lawyer in your area.

[kirbinster]

You don't indicate where you are located, but in general you can take a picture of anything or anyone that is out in public as there is no right to privacy when in public. This includes taking pictures of children, even if someone does not like it -- it is still legal. If they don't want pictures taken of kids then they need to keep them out of public view.

[Mr Guy]

I'm going to assume since it's cricket you're a Brit. You kooky English have some weird laws about public space versus private space, and you should definitely talk to a barrister if you care deeply enough. In the US, our rights may get trampled on, but at least we HAVE them well defined in the first place. In either country, though, the club has the right to prevent you from taking the pictures in the first place. In the US, they'd also have the right to kick you of the club after the fact, while in the UK, you're much more likely to be able to win a lawsuit if they did. In either country, I believe, once you TAKE the pictures they have absolutely no right deciding what you do with them, although you will run into the usual release issues if there's a visible logo or recognizable person and you try and profit from them in a commercial way.

If you're Australian, Indian, or Pakistani, I have no idea. (Those are just the other three places I associate with cricket!) The Aussies get weird about photography rights, too.