Paper Choice?

[SwissJon]

Ok, well now I've got a printer, I want to get some decent paper to print to.. I've got an Epson r2000 which I'm really pleased with, and am steadily working through a 20pack of Epson semigloss premium paper. But while Epson promote their own products of course, there are plenty of other choices out there, so I've a few questions.

First, I think I read somewhere on here that matt or semigloss paper was better than glossy paper if you're planning to put it behind glass. Something to do with the gloss paper sticking to the glass or something. Is this true? What do you prefer to use? I'm a landscape photographer primarily.

Also, aside from Epson, what other papers can you recommend?

Finally, do you generally print with a border or borderless? Do you frame the photo with just the wooden frame or use an additional card frame inside? What about using a white frame on the paper?

Thanks

[dvtldav]

I have used Epson papers for years and have always had good results. I have heard that Red River Paper is also good but I have not used it because I could not find it locally. The Ultra Premium Photo Paper Luster and the Ultra Premium Presentation Paper Matte are both good papers from Epson. I have not used the Ultra Premium Presentation Paper Matte myself because it is not compatible with the inks in my printer but a friend uses it and he swears by it. Go to the Epson website and download their paper profiles for your printer.
I usually print with no border because I usually matte my pictures and sometimes I will put the picture on the matte instead of behind a opening cut in the matte just for a different look.

Dave

[ravncat]

Originally Posted by SwissJon

First, I think I read somewhere on here that matte or semigloss paper was better than glossy paper if you're planning to put it behind glass. Something to do with the gloss paper sticking to the glass or something. Is this true? What do you prefer to use? I'm a landscape photographer primarily.

Yes and No. Glossy does tend to stick more than the other papers - but all of the papers will stick to glass, if the ink has not dried. I recommend giving your prints 24 hours to dry (although the ink seems to dry quickly, and 24 hours may be overly cautious, it seems to work well for me. If you have to rush it, give it at least 2 - 4 hours. After it's dry, you can put it directly against the glass - but humidity issues can cause sticking - so the environment you choose is important

In the end paper sticking is just another reason to use a matte between the print and frame. Often times, the reason for not using glossy paper when behind glass is more for viewing concerns, Glossy prints tend to reflect light and glare more than matte prints do. Atop that with space between the print and the frame you can get extra reflections going on.

I prefer to choose the paper coat based on the mood of the print, matte works well for earth tones, and I find glossy is great for high saturation, I keep small papers of each type and occasionally print multiple versions to see which I prefer - it really is a matter of taste. The important factors in the paper are the brightness and neutral-ness of the paper, as well as the density and texture.

Originally Posted by SwissJon

Also, aside from Epson, what other papers can you recommend?

There are many, lately I am really liking the look of Canson infinity's Platine Fibre Rag 310 gsm. It's a semi-gloss (so you use photo black ink) and it has a really high Dmax. I recommend a lot of Canson and Moab and Museo papers.

I also like to play with textured papers from time to time, I recently made some prints with a Japanese rice paper made by Museo. Textured papers can be tricky to forsee the results. Ansel Adams shunned them.

Originally Posted by SwissJon

Finally, do you generally print with a border or border-less? Do you frame the photo with just the wooden frame or use an additional card frame inside? What about using a white frame on the paper?

I print with a border if I can afford to, it depends on the print size, a border can create a natural inner matte, and you get better print quality at the edges, but if I want to go as large as my printer can, I'm stuck border-less. I also print with a border generally because some images composed in 3:2 aspect need a border if you aren't going to crop them (That usually means custom mattes. I almost always use a mat board inside to give the image some negative space to float in, I find it helps draw the viewer in. I'm not sure what you mean by white frame on the paper.

I'll matte with any color and frame with any color, but I usually choose them based on the image. Usually you want to use a complimentary color. Light and Dark mattes will have different affects on images based on overall tone and contrast. (For example a light matte will make a dark image look darker.)

[SwissJon]

Ok, thanks, that's interesting.. There's a lot more to this printing business than I figured

Excuse me for being a newbie, but when you say "Matte" I take it that you're referring to the card boarder that you put behind the glass that holds the photo a mm or two away from the glass? I've only ever heard of this referred to as an inner frame, but it sure sounds like what you're talking about. I was just a little confused because of the reuse of the word meaning "opposite to glossy".

Ta.

[faeriegodess612]

Originally Posted by SwissJon

Ok, thanks, that's interesting.. There's a lot more to this printing business than I figured

Excuse me for being a newbie, but when you say "Matte" I take it that you're referring to the card boarder that you put behind the glass that holds the photo a mm or two away from the glass? I've only ever heard of this referred to as an inner frame, but it sure sounds like what you're talking about. I was just a little confused because of the reuse of the word meaning "opposite to glossy".

Ta.

That assumption would be correct. Usually frame shops will ask if you want it matted, and if so, you can chose what color, thickness, and so on.

[SwissJon]

Originally Posted by faeriegodess612

That assumption would be correct. Usually frame shops will ask if you want it matted, and if so, you can chose what color, thickness, and so on.

Ahh.. I've never been into a frame shop.. Usually do it myself.. I'd have answered "No, leave it glossy thanks"..

[ravncat]

Yeah - It's confusing that Matte paper and Matte board are both often just referred to as Matte.

Since you mentioned you are new to the printing world, some things that are pretty "basic" (and maybe even already obvious to you) that you'll likely discover,

As the Ink dries, it tends to darken in appearance.
The color of the paper affects the color balance of your image.
The light the print is viewed under affects color balance.
Papers without Optical Brighteners tend to be more Archival.
Matte papers tend to require more print sharpening than glossy (due to ink spread)


Finally, since you have epson, you'll probably notice that epson has a black and white selection that's pretty good as a printer driver (but you'll want to let the printer manage colors if you use it) Unfortunately Printing with that driver from lightroom will result in darker prints than you want - it's easier to do from photoshop. (This is because Lightroom uses a different (unchangeable) Gamma curve than the Gamma curve the epson black and white driver assumes)

[Doug Sundseth]

"Matte" is a term that means either dead flat (no specular reflections) or somewhere between flat and semi-gloss. (This can be a real problem, btw, make sure you know which is meant in any given case.)

A "Mat" is what Jon is referring to as an inner frame, though you can double-mat or do some pretty impressive decorative matting. It is made with a medium weight cardstock called mat board, which is available in a wide variety of colors (nearly all of which are badly misused when artists mat their own work -- you'd think that color theory class might get more use).

Now all of this could easily be a geographical difference in terminology, of course, but that's the US usage.

(The spelling is important, but commonly confused.)

[ravncat]

Originally Posted by Doug Sundseth

Now all of this could easily be a geographical difference in terminology, of course, but that's the US usage.

(The spelling is important, but commonly confused.)

Yeah, I think Mat is Mat in the US but is really just Matte.

[Optikal iLLusion]

Im just gonna take a shot here on a couple things.. I used to work at an office supply store and learned from a couple people there that you should be careful about using "off brand" (meaning different from your brand of printer) paper. Something to do with the inks and paper being made to mesh well together. Now the validity of that statement may be questionable and if that is incorrect then i apologize and i'll be corrected . Im sure there are some more expensive papers out there that would falsify that statement.

As far as printing with a border.. It seems to me that printing with a border would be handy if you planned on matting the photo. Seems like it would give you a space for the matte board that wouldnt encroach on the image.