What is successful for a protographer

[jamesev]

I was having a discussion the other day with a guy who is a pro photographer. He seemed to be saying that his work is good and that business and institutions do not realise the value of investment in professionals that are like him (I presume that he was suggesting that he was extremely devoted to clients and goes the extra mile).

However he also was saying that a good number of businesses and institutions wanted his product but for free, and that a good many photographers (not specifying whether pro or am) actually do give their stuff away for free and hence undermined his position as a pro who is looking for a return on his services.

This got me thinking what is defined as successful as a photographer. On the one hand you could supply product for free and be published all over the world in well reknown publications and hence effectively endorsed as a photographer; would this constitue success that your product is getting out there and is globally visible but you're not making any money and hence not neccessarily sustainable. On the other hand you could refuse to release your stuff for free and deter a business or institution actually using it and hence it not be visible globally.

So should the two go hand in hand ie if you are actually good enough and you know how to market yourself then the finacial rewards will follow. Hence do you have to continually improve as a photographer and keep ahead of the masses to be a commercial viable entity or is it really more about the marketing ie you can be average but of you can convince the right clients that they need your product then you will be successful.

So how much is about being a good photographer and how much is about the marketing right?

[andyw]

Success is whatever you as in individual want to define it as.
For some it may be instant recognition of their name and work and be shown all over the place. Money would be secondary.
For others it is the opposite in that they crave money and are not successful unless they have a million in the bank and don't really care about being a big "name".

There is no specific definition of success really as it varies so much from person to person.

For me it is being able to provide for myself and my family, enjoy and be happy with what I am doing and not have to watch the pennies all the time. Getting world wide recognition would be a bonus but is certainly not important in the big scheme of things.

I am lucky in that I consider myself successful because I am where I want to be.

[SwissJon]

I would agree with Andy to the extent that success is what you make of it.

Success in Photography is no different to any other career.. If you're doing as well as you think you can, and you're happy, then you're successful, no matter how you compare with others, whether you earn money or not.

Personally, unless I start selling prints for extortionate amounts, there's not enough money to be made in photography for me to imagine retiring and going pro.. It seems like too much hard work for too little reward.. I'll stick with my job for a while longer I think.

[andyw]

Originally Posted by todtony

How do I become a successful photographer?
A lot of people say that photography isn't an easy career to get into, and that might be true, but I'm not looking for an "easy career". I'm looking for a career that I will love, and be passionate about. I have my High School Diploma, do I need to go to college? What are the steps I should take into becoming a professional photographer? Any advice will help. Thank you so much.

Actually (IMHO only), photography is a very easy career to get into.
The difficulty comes in trying to make a "proper" living at it.

There is no single route into the business. Some take the college then assisting route, some are hobbyists and later in life move (slowly) into being a "pro" and a hundred other different ways.

A lot depends on what area of photography you want to be involved in.
Being a wedding/portrait photographer is a lot different than being a sports snapper which in turn is different than being a wildlife photographer or photojournalist spe******ing in travel or conflicts or whatever.

The basic criteria for any genre though is that you are skilled at what you do and you are able to market yourself effectively.

If it is something you want to do then research it fully, both the photography AND the business side.

[jamesev]

Originally Posted by andyw

Actually (IMHO only), photography is a very easy career to get into.
The difficulty comes in trying to make a "proper" living at it.

There is no single route into the business. Some take the college then assisting route, some are hobbyists and later in life move (slowly) into being a "pro" and a hundred other different ways.

A lot depends on what area of photography you want to be involved in.
Being a wedding/portrait photographer is a lot different than being a sports snapper which in turn is different than being a wildlife photographer or photojournalist spe******ing in travel or conflicts or whatever.

The basic criteria for any genre though is that you are skilled at what you do and you are able to market yourself effectively.

If it is something you want to do then research it fully, both the photography AND the business side.

Ok a couple of questions. 1) what is the fundamental differences rewards challenges needed for each of the afore mentioned types
2) How much time would be typically spend on the a) photogrpahy and b) the business side?

just to follow on I am guess something like Journalism might be more photography less business, where as Weddings might be more business than photography.

Where would you think Sports fits in (is there really any money in sports photography, is it hard to break into (ie is it much about getting acreditation to get you pitch / court side, requiring some smoozing with the relevant sporting bodies)
Where would wildlife / landscape photography fit in to all this?

[andyw]

Originally Posted by jamesev

Ok a couple of questions. 1) what is the fundamental differences rewards challenges needed for each of the afore mentioned types
2) How much time would be typically spend on the a) photogrpahy and b) the business side?

just to follow on I am guess something like Journalism might be more photography less business, where as Weddings might be more business than photography.

Where would you think Sports fits in (is there really any money in sports photography, is it hard to break into (ie is it much about getting acreditation to get you pitch / court side, requiring some smoozing with the relevant sporting bodies)
Where would wildlife / landscape photography fit in to all this?

hahaha. no offence intended, but................. you are joking aren't you?

To answer all that would take a book on each of the areas(and many have been written already) however, very briefly:

1. To me the rewards in any type of photography are ultimately the same but depend on the type of person you are. They can be financial or just the pleasure of seeing the final product or the joy on the persons face when you present them with a great image.

One challenge is always going to be finding clients.How that is achieved differs from genre to genre but is still about being good at marketing your "product" and yourself.
Obviously there are or can be vast differences in actually getting the image.
In wedding photography it could be making the dragon of a future mother in law law look reasonably human, or for the wildlife photographer it could be sitting in a hide for hours and hours to get the shot in the 15 seconds that the animal appears.

The skills required both in the actual photography and the marketing differ as well but in all areas, knowing your equipment, the techniques required and where to find customers are just as important whether you shoot kids in a studio or Lesser Spotted Warblers in the wilds of Alaska.


2.Personally I plan my year to actually shoot 150-180 days a year (or in financial terms, a minimum of 150 billable days at my basic day rate) with the rest of it being all the other rubbish which goes with it i.e. marketing, paperwork, meetings etc.
The last financial year I billed a total of 192 days (it was a good year)

Effectively I am working 365 days a year because even when on holiday I am taking images with a view to possibly marketing and selling them down the line or am looking at others blogs or attending seminars etc.
Photography is my hobby as well as my business.

Sports, wildlife, travel etc. YES, there is money to be made but and it is a very big BUT, if you want to make a living then you have to work hard, be highly skilled in the market you are aiming for and have a lot of contacts within the publishing houses and organisations which are likely to be the clients (or have a very good agent/team who do all that for you).

With sports, if you are looking at shooting the top of the line (olympics, premiership football, NFL or the like) then you first have to "pay your dues" by spending a few years shooting amateur and semi pro sports and building up your contacts and portfolio.
Trackside or pitchside passes are given out to accredited press or freelancers who are commissioned by recognised publications and even then for the top events they are like gold dust.

Just those three themselves could have reams written about how to approach and succeed in the markets.
Although there is good info on this and other sites about the various aspects of getting into the business there is still no substitute for doing a load of your own research.
That means on the www, books, contacting picture editors and agencies etc.
Subscribe to the magazines, join the organisations etc.

Whatever area of photography someone wants to get into the very bottom line is that you have to make sure your potential customers know you are there and that they want to use you over the competition.
That means having a body of work which makes you stand out from that competition and being persistent.


I could rabbit on and on but ultimately it is down to the individual how well or badly they do if they do decide to get into photography professionally.
The business has for various reasons gotten harder over the past 10 years but there are still opportunities for people if they do their homework properly.

[Jim Bryant]

Originally Posted by todtony

How do I become a successful photographer?
A lot of people say that photography isn't an easy career to get into, and that might be true, but I'm not looking for an "easy career". I'm looking for a career that I will love, and be passionate about. I have my High School Diploma, do I need to go to college? What are the steps I should take into becoming a professional photographer? Any advice will help. Thank you so much.

Education is the key, arm yourself! And learn to say no! As the Joker said, "If you're good at something, never do it for free!"

[jamesev]

Originally Posted by Jim Bryant

Education is the key, arm yourself! And learn to say no! As the Joker said, "If you're good at something, never do it for free!"

Was kinda hoping Jim would share some thoughts on this subject as I heard on the grapevine he's quite "successful" in the field

when you say education do you mean the academic kind (ie photo school) or the life experience kind of education?

[Biomech]

undermined his position as a pro

People who say that usually don't actually have belief in their own product. A sensible businessman knows when to give things away "free" and when to charge - sometimes it's very much worth working for free or at cost. People who give away free services for no business gain are usually the low end CL people who he shouldn't be worrying about if he's that much of a "Pro"

[jamesev]

Originally Posted by Biomech

People who say that usually don't actually have belief in their own product. A sensible businessman knows when to give things away "free" and when to charge - sometimes it's very much worth working for free or at cost. People who give away free services for no business gain are usually the low end CL people who he shouldn't be worrying about if he's that much of a "Pro"

is there a place for a loss leader in Photgraphy then ie giving something away for free in hope that it will lead to a paid job?