Be taken seriously when asking for help

[Jim Poor]

If you want to be taken seriously when asking for help of any sort be it diagnosing what when wrong with a photo, or coming up with a pricing model, there are a few things that will get you better responses than if you forgo them.

1. Give us the information we need IN THE THREAD! Yes, it may be "easy" to clink a link to something else, but really . . . just take the initiative and give us the info. It keeps things neat, tidy and in one place. Of course, there are times when you don't know what info to give, and that's understandable, but when someone asks you for it - give us the information we need IN THE THREAD! Note that I'm not specifically addressing the critique section where the "ask a specific question "rule" is crammed down the throats of those who may want an overall critique or who simply don't know what question(s) to ask. If you have one, ask it, if you don't, I wish I could tell you to leave it unasked, but I don't make the rules.

2. Don't argue pointlessly. I'm not saying don't disagree, or don't ask for clarification, but there's a difference between substantive conversation and petty arguing. There's a Russian idiom that starts of "Don't teach the learned . . ." and ends with something unprintable. (See #5 before you react to this one)

3. Don't take it personally. The internet, with its black and white text, often leads to misunderstandings through failure to convey nuances that would be present in normal face to face interaction. For this reason, I personally prefer to be very direct. Some see it as mean, it's not - grow up and apply some skin thickening cream! I only wish some people had been more direct with me when I started out rather than pussy-footing around things and sugarcoating the advice.

4. Do some reading before you ask! When there are three threads on the front page that all ask essentially the SAME question, it's quite obvious that you've been to lazy to do some research to help yourself. Why should we take time to help you?

5. Realize that just because someone has been at something for a long time, doesn't mean they've been doing it right, or well. Use your head for something other than a hat rack and don't take anything, ANYONE says for gospel without doing some due diligence of your own.

[metallion58]

+1 on your whole post Jim.
A little clarification about this part toughs...

Originally Posted by Jim Poor

3. Don't take it personally. The internet, with its black and white text, often leads to misunderstandings through failure to convey nuances that would be present in normal face to face interaction. For this reason, I personally prefer to be very direct. Some see it as mean, it's not - grow up and apply some skin thickening cream! I only wish some people had been more direct with me when I started out rather than pussy-footing around things and sugarcoating the advice.

I can deal with direct and blunt. That's information I certainly need. Not the sugarcoated, so-called Care Bear attitude.
However, some posters have crossed the line between direct and blunt to downright rude and insulting, as we've often seen lately. That doesn't help and will understandably be perceived as personal attacks. So be direct but please, let's mind our manners everybody.
If we are civil in our interventions, we'll be treated in like.

[dakwegmo]

This should be a sticky.

[dakwegmo]

Oh, and in addition to point 4. It's not just reading. If you can show that you've taken some effort to help yourself, either through reading, or experimenting, or trying different approaches, then you're going to get more people willing to help because you've shown you might have a legitimate problem.

[Jim Poor]

Originally Posted by metallion58

. . ., some posters have crossed the line between direct and blunt to downright rude and insulting . . .

No, really? Like the ones with lots of "F" words that call people "d*ckheads" by chance?

[Jim Poor]

Originally Posted by dakwegmo

Oh, and in addition to point 4. It's not just reading. If you can show that you've taken some effort to help yourself, either through reading, or experimenting, or trying different approaches, then you're going to get more people willing to help because you've shown you might have a legitimate problem.

Yes! Demonstrate that you've actually read something rather than saying "I searched" when we know good and well you didn't! Of course, the search function is crappy, but it isn't THAT crappy!

[Jim Bryant]

before asking questions you can always go to this thread. Everything you ever wanted to know about photography! On DPS!
Research on your own before asking the same questions by countless others time after time again and again. It's not that we want to help, but it's more likely been asked before.

[mosgood]

Originally Posted by dakwegmo

This should be a sticky.

I agree! How bout it mods? Can we make this thread a sticky?

[Krusty79]

Originally Posted by Jim Poor

4. Do some reading before you ask! When there are three threads on the front page that all ask essentially the SAME question, it's quite obvious that you've been to lazy to do some research to help yourself. Why should we take time to help you?

You know, if you're going to any photography forum that's been around for a few years, you have to know that the question "how do I get started in _____ photography" has already been asked dozens of times. Why wouldn't you make the effort to do a search first to see if your question has been answered instead of posting your question like you're the first person in the world who has thought of it?

If you do this anyway and get some blunt/curt responses, that doesn't mean that DPS is full of asshats!

[ArmySoldier777]

All very good points. Another thing is, if you ask for help, actually listen to the advice being given. As Jim said, definitely do some research on your own about the advice that you're receiving, because we all make mistakes and maybe something we say isn't 100% correct, but it seems like a lot of people come on here asking for help and then they ignore most of the people that are trying to help them because it's not what they want to hear. A lot of people today only want praise, they don't want to hear that somethings wrong with what they're doing or how they're doing it. Then they come on here asking people to look at what they're doing, expecting everybody to say that everything's great, or that they're on the right track. Then they get slapped in the face with reality and run in the other direction. You're never going to become a better photographer if you do that, you're just going to keep doing the same things the wrong way over and over again and not improve. So take what you can from the advice being given, even if it may seem harsh at the time. As long as it's not a personal attack against you, then don't get all emotional about it. Sometimes you gotta have thick skin on here, but it's definitely one of the best places anywhere on the internet when it comes to learning about the world of photography.