Paying to be a Second Shooter?

[MindyRaeL]

So, I've been toying around with the idea of branching out into wedding photography, but I've never shot a wedding before, and I've only attended a handful as a guest. At this point, I'm really just looking to dip my toes in the water, and see if I enjoy it or I hate it.
Obviously, I don't want to just post an ad on Craigslist and potentially ruin someone's wedding, so I sent out a bunch of emails to other wedding photogs in the area, asking if I could second shoot for them. Most didn't even bother to respond, and the few that did said they had no need for a second shooter. That, in and of itself, has me wondering if they truly don't need a second shooter, or if my work's just so terrible they don't want to work with me at all and are just too nice to say so.

Anyway. In one response, the photog said that I could be his second shooter for a fee of $200. I haven't responded, because, well, I'm not even sure what to say about that. If I was asking for mentoring or something similar, I could understand wanting to be compensated for that. But I was asking to simply tag along, carry his gear, set-up lights, whatever he needed. So I'm just wondering, is it normal to pay to be a second shooter? Do any of you wedding pro's charge for this?

Secondly, I'm just wondering if anyone has any other ideas how I could get a taste of wedding photography? Unfortunately, all of my friends and family are long married, so there isn't really a chance of doing it for them. Should I just keeping asking, hoping that somewhere, someday, someone will need a second shooter?

[Aboiement]

Sounds like he doesn't want you there, that's the message I git.

[graciousness]

Wait, the photographer wants you to pay $200 so you can be a second shooter to a wedding? That's a bit rich from my point of view. You may as well take a wedding photography course for that price and then jump on in and do your first wedding for a discount later. Geesh!

I'd keep going and asking around till you find one that needs help. Forget those ones that want money from you. It may take a while, but you may get a bite at some point.

[Vincent_G]

A few emails might not be enough to get your toes wet, have you tried Google+? There are plenty of Photographers using G+ . ..keep trying you'll be up to your chin before you know it.

[Doug Sundseth]

It's at least possible that the photog that wants money (and maybe the rest, for that matter) is worried about creating competition for himself. Second shooter is the traditional path into the industry, and lots of professional photographers are feeling the pinch of the bad economy coupled with easier shooting.

I'm rather of the opinion that being a decent person pays dividends that more than compensate for the minor hit caused by one more competitor. (Not least because your friends will throw you business that they can't handle and you can do the same for them.)

I suspect that there's a fairly strong correlation between people who can't see that advantage and people who do poorly at the business side of photography, as well, which would naturally increase the stress.

[MindyRaeL]

Originally Posted by graciousness

Wait, the photographer wants you to pay $200 so you can be a second shooter to a wedding? That's a bit rich from my point of view. You may as well take a wedding photography course for that price and then jump on in and do your first wedding for a discount later. Geesh!.

Yep, he wants me to pay him. Apparently for the privilege of his company. I just can't imagine paying to carry someone else's gear around.

Originally Posted by Vincent_G

A few emails might not be enough to get your toes wet, have you tried Google+? There are plenty of Photographers using G+ . ..keep trying you'll be up to your chin before you know it.

Thanks! I do have G+, but I really haven't played with it too much. Perhaps I'll have to look into it more.

Originally Posted by Doug Sundseth

It's at least possible that the photog that wants money (and maybe the rest, for that matter) is worried about creating competition for himself. Second shooter is the traditional path into the industry, and lots of professional photographers are feeling the pinch of the bad economy coupled with easier shooting.

I'm rather of the opinion that being a decent person pays dividends that more than compensate for the minor hit caused by one more competitor. (Not least because your friends will throw you business that they can't handle and you can do the same for them.)

I suspect that there's a fairly strong correlation between people who can't see that advantage and people who do poorly at the business side of photography, as well, which would naturally increase the stress.

Very well said. I did expect some people to be afraid of training the competition, and can fully understand their fears. I guess I was just hoping the pros in my area would be a little more amicable.

[dakwegmo]

You definitely shouldn't be paying to assist with a wedding. However, it may be that asking to be a second shooter is what's getting you rejected. Most photographers don't really need another photographer there shooting, what they need is someone who can assist with a million different tasks other than clicking a shutter release. If you approach them and say can I take pictures at your wedding, it's likely they see that as trying to insinuate yourself into their gig. If you try another cold call type approach, I would change your request to ask if you can be their assistant. You may have to work a couple of weddings where you never take a picture, but if you pay attention you can learn a lot about the process. Once you've built a relationship with the photographer, then you can start talking about shooting along side them.

[EmyB]

Perhaps I'm alone here but that doesn't sound too unreasonable to me! You would spend a whole wedding watching how a pro works and how he plans/sets up etc etc. You'd probably get a whole bunch of valuable tips, even down to how he interacts with subjects, positioning, lighting, important moments etc etc.

He doesn't know you from a bar of soap so he's probably worried you're just going to get in the way etc. Perhaps if you do a good job he'd let you tag along for free next time cause you contribute to the shoot rather than detract.

If I was keen on wedding photography I would def pay that if I couldn't get experience any other way.

[Tzetsin]

This isn't as uncommon as you think. You have to realize what your asking this business to do. Your basically apprenticing yourself to them and education isn't free.

The problem with having people come in to their business this way is that the apprentice system has largely been abolished in this day and age. So people who come to find the education feel that they're equal to their teachers. Because of this its a lot harder to work with the "apprentice" because they demand the same respect as a master or journeyman when they haven't earned it yet.

I'm not saying that this is you. Actually you've already said you simply wanted to help with lights bags and other things, which is good because thats where you need to start.

Now you need to think about the other photographers position. They have an email from another photographer saying they want to come follow them around while they're working, watching what they do so they can do it themselves. This is extremely bad business, and they'd be stupid to agree.

If you sent an email to the effect that you wanted to apprentice under them, work for them, basically start at the BOTTOM and work your way up, you would have a much better chance.

200 bucks is crazy cheap for the experience and education that you'd otherwise have zero chance of getting. I know a couple photographers in my home town that charge 15 - 2000 dollars PER WEDDING. Granted they ARE trying to get you to go away, but its still small change to what they could loose by having another wedding photographer set up shop in their territory.

If I was you, I'd JUMP at the chance of working with this person. Who knows, maybe this 200 dollars is all it will take to get into a business relationship with a working wedding photographer. The $200 will show the other photographer that you are serious and willing to put your money where your mouth is.

Seriously though, ask yourself why any photographer should hire you. What advantage would they get by hireing you? Its pretty likely that they dont "need" another photographer, any photographer working in the business is already going to have a work flow that works for them. Just about anybody can set up a light stand and carry crap around, so they dont need to hire a "photographer" to do it. The only reason any company should hire someone is if that person can make the company more money than they pay them. The profit margin of most photographers today is already getting stretched pretty thin.

Don't get offended by this photographer. out of all the photographers you contacted they were the ONLY ones that was willing to give you any kind of chance. How much would you be willing to pay for an 8 hour photography "workshop"? 200? 400? 800? workshops arn't cheap, and they arn't always effective and they're very rarely on location. 200 bucks is a steal. If you dont jump at this chance your nuts.

Another thing to remember is that the actual "shooting" is a small part of the entire business. You're going to need to work with these people for a while before you get a good enough grasp on it all to do a good job of it yourself.

[praline3001]

It would depend on the photographer. That is a lot of money to give to just anyone. If he really has some great work and knows his business and has outstanding pieces then I say go for it. You can learn a lot. Just be careful and make sure he is top notch.


something else you can look into is shoestring budget weddings. The way the economy is right now there are many couples willing to let a newbie shoot the wedding for free. You aren't making any money but you also aren't shelling it out either. Maybe stick ads at discount wedding dress stores and the like? Give your qualifications and that you are wanting to branch out into wedding photography. As a student, you would not charge and would be happy to do the wedding for free for the learning experience. Granted these weddings won't be in any millionaire clubs magazines but it would be a place to start and get a reputation and build your portfolio.