Ongoing Request for Disaster-Related Photos and Videos for LCMS

[wulf]

FWIW, I am confident that my church is not run as a money making scam. For the rest, I suggest exercising due diligence before giving away your photos. Using your camera skills to support a worthy cause is worthwhile (IMHO) but do note that a personal connection is always the best way forward.

Wulf

[Doug Sundseth]

Originally Posted by BuddhaPi

I concur swissjon...not to mention in that in the fiscal year of 2008 their total income was $86, 679,000, that would be "86 million dollars", but they can't afford to purchase some stock phtots???....shall i also mention that for the same year their expenses were 70,036,000....i'm no math major but i think i see over 16 million in profit!

Here is the report from the BBB ( I won't mention the bad rating they have)

I'm not a member of the LCMS, nor do I have any particular brief for their beliefs.

But this dismissive attitude doesn't actually reflect the information in your linked report.

The church has 2.3 million members (per Wikipedia). There are going to be significant administrative costs. Fund raising costs just over 10% are not unreasonable. The only reason for the poor rating is reporting that the BBB wants but that the church didn't provide as of 2010. And $250,000 isn't a particularly unreasonable salary for the head of an $86,000,000 enterprise.

If you do have a problem with the fund-raising costs, it would seem to me that a cost-free (or nearly so) request for donations like this one should be a good thing, not a bad thing. If you don't like it, don't donate (I won't be), but asking for donations is what charities do.

[SwissJon]

@ Wulf - I've no issue with the church, who in general do a lot of good work around the world without taking huge profits.. My understanding of the Christian belief is that one does good unto others without lining your own pockets in the process. I would say that 95%+ of the ordained ministers in the Christian church believe and practice the faith to the best of their abilities and carry out some unbelievably selfless acts in the course of their ministry. I've no doubt that there are some very good people associated with the church, and I have no problem with the faith. The teachings of Jesus were good and if a lot more people paid attention to them today, the world would be in a lot less misery.

Having said that:

Originally Posted by Doug Sundseth

The only reason for the poor rating is reporting that the BBB wants but that the church didn't provide as of 2010.

What?? This doesn't make sense... Didn't provide what?

And $250,000 isn't a particularly unreasonable salary for the head of an $86,000,000 enterprise.

No.. Not for an $86million ENTERPRISE.. But for the head of a church, an ordained minister who has vowed poverty and preaches Matthew 19:24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.

For someone preaching this, for someone perportedly looking to enter the kingdom of heaven, taking 5% of the administrative costs for himself and one other top executive when he has 600 staff, is outrageous. This isn't about "attracting a top executives".. This guy is an ordained minister.. This is supposedly "gods work".. The Christian church teaches us that its ministers should be examples to us. With this kind of example, we're going to hell, and he'll be leading the way.

If you do have a problem with the fund-raising costs, it would seem to me that a cost-free (or nearly so) request for donations like this one should be a good thing, not a bad thing. If you don't like it, don't donate (I won't be), but asking for donations is what charities do.

Requesting for donations, yes.. Requesting for specific donations relating to actual works carried out, for example, asking for photographs of the devestaion in Japan after the Tsunami because you're helping to rebuild the country and want to raise money for it.. Fine.. Asking for photos of starving African kids because you're working in the famine struck areas in Ethiopia.. A bit creepy, but I can understand.. Asking for general photos of disasters to pay some guy $250k is using human misery to feather your own bed. It's not right, and it's certainly not Christian.

Max.. I've only read he sumary of that book, but I think I understand what you're hinting at.. However, sometimes you just have to say something and be damned for it.

[Doug Sundseth]

Originally Posted by SwissJon

What?? This doesn't make sense... Didn't provide what?

"reporting" There were reports that the BBB wanted to see that the church didn't provide.

Originally Posted by SwissJon

No.. Not for an $86million ENTERPRISE.. But for the head of a church, an ordained minister who has vowed poverty and preaches Matthew 19:24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.

For someone preaching this, for someone perportedly looking to enter the kingdom of heaven, taking 5% of the administrative costs for himself and one other top executive when he has 600 staff, is outrageous. This isn't about "attracting a top executives".. This guy is an ordained minister.. This is supposedly "gods work".. The Christian church teaches us that its ministers should be examples to us. With this kind of example, we're going to hell, and he'll be leading the way.

I'm not sure where you get the "has vowed poverty" part. It's not an integral part of Lutheran doctrine, nor that of many other denominations. (Talk to one of your Calvinist neighbors if you need more clarification. Or talk to your local Catholic bishop or archbishop.)

As far as salary, lets take a look at other charitable enterprises: Boy Scouts of America CEO salary $916,000/year, United Way CEO salary over $1 million, Salvation Army (usually regarded as one of the most efficient charitable organizations) between $80,000 and $240,000, World Wildlife Fund CEO, about $250,000 in salary and benefits. If the guy is good at what he does, $250,000 isn't out of line.

Feel free to talk about what the platonic ideal of a charitable organization CEOs salary, but I consider that to fall into the same category as complaints that "I shouldn't have to pay that much for a photo. How hard is it to push a shutter release?"

Originally Posted by SwissJon

Requesting for donations, yes.. Requesting for specific donations relating to actual works carried out, for example, asking for photographs of the devestaion in Japan after the Tsunami because you're helping to rebuild the country and want to raise money for it.. Fine.. Asking for photos of starving African kids because you're working in the famine struck areas in Ethiopia.. A bit creepy, but I can understand.. Asking for general photos of disasters to pay some guy $250k is using human misery to feather your own bed. It's not right, and it's certainly not Christian.

And you, sir, are No True Scotsman.

Most large denominations in the US really do send aid to the vast majority of humanitarian crises in the world. As to how effective they are? Well, usually better than the UN (a low bar, it must be admitted) and worse than the US Navy, but I have no idea where on that continuum the LCMS is.

I'm afraid I really don't understand the outrage.

[BuddhaPi]

my point was simply, if they bring in that much money, they could easily afford to purchase stock photo's, Getty would probably even give them a discount being they are "non-profit"..or perhaps in all of these places they are serving someone could snap some pictures..

[SwissJon]

Originally Posted by Doug Sundseth

"reporting" There were reports that the BBB wanted to see that the church didn't provide.

One wonders why....

I'm going to step away from this discussion.. It's fairly obvious that some people are happy to close their eyes to hypocracy... I've made my point.