Grey Market: Shady or legitimate?

[teepee12]

This has come up in a variety of posts. It's been suggested, sometimes subtly, sometimes NOT so subtly, that it is something to beware of, perhaps an unsavory practice.

Exactly what the dynamics of the grey market are, I do not know. However, ALL THE MAJOR RESELLERS including Amazon, B&H, Adorama, and so on sell grey market in addition to "regular" new equipment.

Most of these resellers offer reasonable warranties with this equipment, although usually more limited that the regular warranty. If you aren't sure what you are getting, call and ask. They will tell you. Usually the difference in price between grey and not-grey market is not very much ... a few dollars. Rarely more than that. However, sometimes you can get something via the grey market that isn't available otherwise.

I've bought grey market lenses and other accessories from both B&H and Amazon without incident. I'm not sure what the market dynamics are, but it is common practice and by no means limited to shady resellers. ALL the resellers do it and they are entirely up front about it. No one is hiding behind the bushes.

I've also bought refurbished products -- computers AND cameras -- from just about everyone including Dell, Adorama, and more ... and trust me when I tell you, there is nothing greyer than refurbished! But there you can often save hundreds of dollars. Just get a really good warranty if you buy refurbished. Sometimes it is fine, no problem ... sometimes not.

Please do not dismiss buying alternatives: we're all on a budget and need to do the most we can with the funds we have available.

[Bruce A]

My present and previous DSLRs, lenses, and most accessories were purchased on Ebay from sellers in Hong Kong, Japan, China, Taiwan, UK and I've never had a problem. If the distributors in this country weren't so greedy I'd think more about supporting local stores. For example - saving $600 on a D7000 body only should prove my point.

[NathanFranke]

By "gray market," we're strictly talking about knockoffs from China/Hong Kong/etc, right? I don't really consider used or refurbed gray market. Black market is for stolen/smuggled stuff, right? Maybe I don't understand the terms...

I've used (what I consider) the gray market on some things, not photography related (i.e., movies and music that isn't available commercially in the United States). For high dollar stuff like camera equipment, I don't trust it. I would trust refurbished equipment from a reputable seller like B&H or Adorama, used stuff from Ebay depending on the seller's feedback score, and used stuff from Craigslist or local shops if I get to touch it before buying--and the store has a return policy.

[ceremus]

Originally Posted by NathanFranke

By "gray market," we're strictly talking about knockoffs from China/Hong Kong/etc, right? I don't really consider used or refurbed gray market. Black market is for stolen/smuggled stuff, right? Maybe I don't understand the terms...

No, they're not knockoffs. A Grey Market item purchased from somewhere like B&H or Adorama is generally the exact same product as you would get from the USA distributor. The only appreciable difference in most cases is that it's imported and not eligible for the manufacturer warranty, or manufacturer rebate discounts.

B&H sells most products with a warranty from the manufacturer or from the manufacturer's licensed importer. We also sell some products we've obtained from sources other than the manufacturer or its licensed importer. These are "grey market" products.

"Grey market" is not illegal, not factory seconds, not demo merchandise, not cheaper or inferior products. In fact in almost every instance a "grey market" products is absolutely identical to its US-warranted counterpart. "Grey market" and US-warranted products are manufactured in the same factories from the same components, and sub-assemblies, to the same specs and tolerances, by the same workers. In terms of the item itself (excepting PAL video -- see below) there is no difference at all. A "grey market" Nikon 50mm f/1.4 D-AF lens (for example) is exactly the same in every possible way as the US-warranted version.\


-What are the differences as far as a customer is concerned?

In most cases the difference between a "USA" and a "Grey Market," or imported product, is the cost of the item and the terms of the item’s warranty coverage. The products themselves are otherwise identical. As a rule, "Grey Market" items cost less than their USA counterparts. "Grey market" products never qualify for manufacturer's rebate programs.

U.S. & Grey Market Products | B&H Photo Video

[SwissJon]

Knock offs, stolen goods and so on are Black market items.

Grey market goods are items that are bought in countries such as Japan and China, where they can be purchased much more cheaply than in Europe or the US. There's nothing necesarily illegal about them, however there's no way to veryfy their origins and the quality of the goods prior to purhase, and the warranty is worthless. They could easily be the rejects, or could be stolen from the factory, or they could be perfectly legitimate.

So basically, if you choose to purchase a $1000 lens from an unknown source, unseen, with no warranty, that's entirely up to you. I've purchased two grey market lenses. Both were ok, but I actually knew the person I was buying them from, and saw the lenses and fitted them to the camera before I handed over my hard earned. I didn't ask where the lenses are from, some things are better not known.

If you're going to buy grey market, you should consider that you're buying the equivalent of nearly new goods from someone, rather than brand new, and make sure that the price reflects that. Because essentially, the two are have the same result if the item isn't what you expected.

A bargin saving of $600 is not such a win if your camera breaks after a short time and you have to pay $800 to get it fixed. However it's not such a bad deal if it doesn't.. There's no need to vavoid the grey market, so long as you're going in with your eyes open.

[NathanFranke]

Thanks for clarifying.

[Jonbar18]

Nothing wrong with grey market. It's the exact same product. The only difference is that waranties won't be available, since its imported in a way that voids the warranty.

For example, a company like B&H might buy the cameras in China, where it's cheaper, then import them to the U.S for sale. They make more money, and might even pass some of those savings on to you. However, because those cameras were made for sale in China, when they were imported into the US, the warrenty was voided.

But like Jon said, you should always be careful. A large retailer like B&H is perfectly fine, but that's not always true. There are a lot of stores set up soley around the grey market (about half the transactions on Ebay). The product might be just a simple resale, but there's a chance its been used, and is now in bad shape. Be smart, do your research (go Ebays feedback system!!!!!!!!!), and try to buy from larger sellers if possible.

[Bruce A]

Originally Posted by SwissJon

A bargin saving of $600 is not such a win if your camera breaks after a short time and you have to pay $800 to get it fixed. However it's not such a bad deal if it doesn't.. There's no need to vavoid the grey market, so long as you're going in with your eyes open.

The fact is all the costly stuff, camera bodies, lenses etc I have purchased are covered by warranties either for return or pick up at door. I only deal with well known, trusted stores that have been around for a long time and have excellent feedback. That is only common sense.

[3bayjunkie]

so why don't you just say imported instead of grey market. i was confused the first half of this thread. Yeah I see the imported stuff. its not really much of a price difference. some times a couple hundred of a lens that gosts $2500 - $3000 but i don't really see the savings as being that beneficial. Although as you said some are only available as imported so I guess you just have to look around if you want USA only.

[Doug Sundseth]

Why don't you say "ratio of aperture diameter to focal length" instead of "f/stop"? That's what it is, after all.

Most people say "gray market" because the industry term is "gray market". If you have any doubts about that, take a look at B&H's site or Adorama's site.

As to why that was originally chosen, it's because the equipment wasn't imported illegally (so not "black market") nor was it imported by the usual channels and supported by the standard manufacturer's warranties. (This can be a serious problem if you don't know it's happening; fortunately the better stores make it pretty clear now.)