Unions..how do you feel Americans? Poll Question

[autofocus]

Hopefully, this will make it easier to poll the results

[Niresangwa]

I think you're missing something in your questions here Vince, and it's a key issue: that' the distinction between public and private sector unions.

No one can reasonably doubt the important role that unions have historically had in labor relations, and we should all be grateful for the equality they have helped instill. I feel like that needs to be stated first and foremost.

Though this has only become an issue in the US in the last couple of years, accelerated by politics in Wisconsin and now other states, I first became interested in the issue because of the industrial actions in the UK in the early 80's.

I believe however that the idea of public sector unions has always been flawed, in no uncertain terms, it's borderline incestuous. To whit, the leverage they have has always been excessive. Essentially public sector unions are negotiating with themselves as tax payers. They have placed themselves above the tax payer, which is unacceptable.

The real shame for me is the one sided support of the democratic party in terms of support and contributions, especially when membership is mandated. Though others will claim otherwise, the facts demonstrate that corporations donate to both (d) and (r)'s in a much more balanced manner.

To see them, here in Wisconsin, hold up the teachers as social martyrs to inspire sympathy in the public was disgusting, to the point that public perception of educators has dipped significantly.

As with all things, times change. With the degree of civil and worker rights written into federal and state labor laws, thanks in part to the labor unions, they have essentially marginalized their own importance.

Like it or not, their days are numbered in the public sector.

[autofocus]

Obviously, Steve, this subject can become very heated with a firestorm of emotions on either side, pro, or opposed. I just wanted to keep it simple to see where the heads of most people are about this issue here in the US. Obviously, at one time the unions served a very important purpose that ultimately led to far better working conditions for all. (the Triangle Shirtwaist factory fire in NY 100 years ago underscore how much the unions have contributed to better working conditions since then) The question, regardless of public sector or private sector, is at what cost to the general public measured by today's standards? In simple terms..is there a need for them today, or not?

[Hill Country Hack]

To Niresangwa- Well said.

Unions have/had led to many improvements in wages, safety, and working conditions just to name a few. Pre union the employers had all the power and abused said power. Think of the coal miners living in company housing, shopping in company stores (at outlandish prices) leaving the workers always just above starvation levels.

What I just can't get past is how unions control the ability to work in any given strong union town. Using a plumber as an example...(a) If plumber is not union, then cannot get a job in a union shop, it is also very difficult to make a living as a private contractor because other potential business may have "union first" bidding processes. (b) If a plumber is union, this person cannot do side work to supplement income because will then be undermining the union and will be kicked out. (c) Said plumber retires with full union benefits wants to do help a family member, this plumber will be risking retirement if the union finds out this retired plumber does the work instead of an active union member.

The other main issue I have with unions is once one is a union worker, they rarely advance up the chain to "management". I feel this squelches initiative and drive to improve one's self. If worker does make the jump to management, they are shunned by the workers, and never really accepted (and in some cases underminded) by others in management.

[RLucas]

Unions? What are those? In all seriousness though. Here in the south, they aren't very widespread. UPS is about the only private sector union that I can think of around here. The Good Year wire plant went union just a few years ago, but was recently bought out by a Taiwanese company, so i am unsure of what they have here now.
North Carolina has no public sector unions that I know of.
I am on the fence with the idea. In theory they have been/could be a good thing, but, to me, it just opens the door for more corruption and exploitation.

[kirbinster]

There was a role for unions during the industrial revolution when companies took advantage of workers. Currently there are so many laws that protect workers that all unions do is raise prices for everyone else. They are no different than OPEC, they let those in them extract more money at the perils of everyone else.

Further, the only people that should want to be in a union are those that perform below average. Why would any hard working dedicated individual want to be compensated the exact same as a slacker? Unions drive performance to the lowest common denominator.

Unions and Federal laws combined are killing the economy. There is a law for Federal contracts that those companies that are selected must pay the local prevailing UNION wages, this is crazy as it just forces up the price taxpayers pay and we get less goods or service for our money. Recently to get around the stupidity Oakland CA replaced the bay bridge by outsourcing fabrication to China so as to save costs over paying union wages. Had this law not existed the bridge would have been built by non-union workers in this country.

[SwissJon]

Lol.. Not being in the US has advantages,one being that I can speak my mind on this.. Unions SHOULD still be a useful way of preventing theft cats from abusing their workers.. However, more often than not,the union leaders BECOME the fat cats, and drive the union politic to their own agenda, rather than actually representing their members. Unfortunately, in this day and age, the result of strong union action is to reap short term rewards for the workers, while driving the company toward bankruptcy.

So I think that the ideal union still has a place, but what they've become in the states and around the world, is detrimental to the company that the workers work for, detrimental for the workers, and, ultimately detrimental for the economy of the country as a whole, as the fat cats will go and get their products made overseas where it's cheaper and the unions dont exist..

[digirebelva]

I am not of fan of unions, never have been, but unfortunately in the private sector there still exists the need for the "Threat" of a union to keep some companies from gouging their employees. Public unions...there should be no such thing...not when you are living off of the taxpayers dollar..oh and I work for govt at the state level (only 4 years)...but don't belong to a union...The city has one and I have heard numerous stories about how hard it is to fire a slacker once they have made it past the probation period..they have to do just enough...and they keep their job. unions should be in a partnership with the company as a healthy company is good for everyone involved, not always striking or threatening to strike for more money, better benefits, better job security etc (like the UAW did for years at the big three..1 of them was picked in a rotating schedule to have a strike at because once a new contract was ratified at one, the other 2 would soon follow suit)...yeah we would all like to make $30/hr, but then none of us could afford to pay for the stuff that those making $30/hr produce...

[NathanFranke]

In today's society, private unions are rarely needed. As Niresangwa said, public unions are an outright cancer. I used to think that private unions were just as bad--they steal from their customers--but my recent work situation has led me to believe otherwise.

I used to work for a private software company--a very successful one. It was only when they fired me immediately after a positive performance review that the taste wore off. They demand 60-70 hours workweeks for their employees, while paying them salary (i.e., no overtime pay). Taking any accrued vacation/sick time is frowned on, and will make one look "unreliable". There's a whole host of other stuff--pm me if you want links to relevant websited--but a good union would have vastly improved working conditions there.

That's the exception though. By and large, unions have been successful in getting government oversight (OSHA, for example) to maintain safe working conditions. I don't think unions need to be negotiating pay or benefits. That's an agreement between the worker and management--whatever both sides agree on is fair.

[WooD]

I was with the G.C.I.U for 20 years, then we joined in with Teamsters.

I don't work anymore, but I'm still a card holding member.

IMHO there was definitely a time for unions, but from what I've seen they just protect the useless workers.

We hired a guy in once, and the dude worked his ass off..........until he was there 90 days, and joined the union. After that you had to go looking for him every time there was work to be done.