To Alter or not to Alter - Ethics - have we gone too far?

[Izzy]

I will not use the term PS. I mean editing in general. To us these alterations are obvious. To the public maybe they are not so obvious. What do you think? Have we gone too far?

I say not far enough!

[Niresangwa]

I'm not sure it's such a big deal. I also think it's naive these days to think reasonable people don't know that images are retouched.

I use liquify as a matter of course in some images - the most frequent use is for a girl or bride wearing a strapless dress that usually results in a muffin-top effect on their back, around the armpit..not because I want to make her look Hollywood, but because I don't want her to latch on to that aspect of the image in an otherwise great shot. 9 people out of 10 won't notice, but that other 1 person is guaranteed to be the model.

As far as skin retouching, I don't do the plastic-fantastic portrait professional style smoothing, but will clone out dry skin or zit marks. Again, not to improve, but to bring it up to a 'normal' level.

This reminds me of the misconception regarding cosmetic surgery - most people assume patients have it done to take them look better than 'normal', whereas most patients will tell you they have the surgery done in order to reach a perceived level of normal.

To those who argue that it's a skewed perspective of 'normal' to reduce unseemly bulges and remove zits and sunspots, it's not my responsibility to adhere to reality to the point I need to document temporary and circumstantial aspects of someone's appearance.

I think it's just par for the course, the same as it is mixing recording artists etc.

[SwissJon]

Will you prevent a model from putting make up on? Or for that matter, diet, or even change their clothes?

If your intention with a photograph is to enhance, by all means alter.. If it's to deceive then perhaps you've gone too far (for example, alter the face of a model when you're advertising clothes, it makes no difference to the intent of the photo, if you are advertising make up, then altering the models face is probably a criminal offence..

As for most things, it's highly dependant on the circumstances..

[MrJones]

it's funny you bring this up now.
recently, a new law was introduced here in Israel because of this photoshop magic and how it's affecting young girls.
so the new law states a certain weight that under it the girl can't practice modeling and the studios are in charge of making sure that girls who suffer from eating disorders can't model.

have we gone too far?
that's an interesting question. I think it's ok to remove spots or clone out a stranded hair, but the liquify module really takes it to the edge, presenting us an image which is closer in mind to painting then photography. I think it can mess up young girls minds and lead to an eating disorder.
so my opinion is, fashion magazines have gone too far.

[MrJones]

Originally Posted by SwissJon

Will you prevent a model from putting make up on? Or for that matter, diet, or even change their clothes?

I think the problem begins when magazines create images that cannot exist in real life.

Originally Posted by Niresangwa

I'm not sure it's such a big deal. I also think it's naive these days to think reasonable people don't know that images are retouched.

I think that even if you know that the image was retouched, it still affect you.
I know the image has been edited but I still want to look like the model in to photo.
don't count on a 12yr old girl to know the difference.

Originally Posted by MrJones

I think the problem begins when magazines create images that cannot exist in real life.

I guess that means that Photoshop Magazine is screeeeewwwweedd

[Niresangwa]

Originally Posted by MrJones

don't count on a 12yr old girl to know the difference.

I don't. I rely on responsible adults to explain it, just as they would explain fictional violence or anything else that is a distortion of reality for aesthetic or entertainment value.

To introduce legislation to combat this is ridiculous.

[MrJones]

Originally Posted by Niresangwa

To introduce legislation to combat this is ridiculous.

don't get me wrong, I think that law is hysterical and can't really achieve anything.
but it doesn't change the fact that I think fashion magazines are going too far

[SwissJon]

Originally Posted by MrJones

I think the problem begins when magazines create images that cannot exist in real life..

But I quite regularly create photographs that cannot exist in real life.. Shooting star trails at night.. Car lights.. Making water flat when it's rough to get refelctions, silky waterfalls.. The list goes on for non-human subjects..

And what about sports and photoshopping them?? Should that be disallowed?


Whilst I think that to some extent lopping off chunks of fat to make a model look skinny is wrong, the consumer, that needs to take responsibility for this.. You can hardly legistlate against magazines for giving the consumer what they demand, offer a man a mens magazine full of short overweight women on a shelf with skinny long legged ones and have a guess which sells the most. If you want legislation (and I don't) you need to make it illegal for people to be underweight!

You're going to have to think VERY carefully about how you're going to implement any kind of ruling over how photoshopped images are used, it's unrealistic just to say "you can't" because in reality, they can.. Whether they should, and by how much is down to the consumers tastes..

Eating disorders are the symptom of a bigger problem with self worth and self image, changing the ideal body shape in magazines is not going to change this, the symptoms will just emerge in a different way. If we imagine that photoshopped women in magazines are the direct cause of peoples eating behaviours then the figures I read in the paper today, that 38% of Americans are unhealthily overweight, and 20% are obese (That's 58% in total) would be reversed, and problems with people being unhealthily underweight (6%) would be far more rife than those of people overweight. If anything, presentation of women in magazines looking slim and skiiny has helped American women stay slimmer than American men.. Maybe we should be encouraging the practice in men, rather than discouraging it in women?