2 quick questions

[ottojoe]

Ok, to all the great people here I have 2 simple questions.

What do you do when very good friends keep asking for you to fix photos they get from someone else, and even (ugh) their cell phones to look more like the photos I do?

And also, I am always so afraid to post to the critique sections here - I see so much of "what story are you trying to convey?", very few times when I am shooting do I have a story in mind, I am just seeing beauty and trying to capture it. What exactly do you all mean about story, do you all have stories that you are trying to convey in your pictures?

Thanks for any advice and love having a little more time in my life right now to check back into this great site always so much fun and information.

[Jim Poor]

Originally Posted by ottojoe

Ok, to all the great people here I have 2 simple questions.

What do you do when very good friends keep asking for you to fix photos they get from someone else, and even (ugh) their cell phones to look more like the photos I do?

And also, I am always so afraid to post to the critique sections here - I see so much of "what story are you trying to convey?", very few times when I am shooting do I have a story in mind, I am just seeing beauty and trying to capture it. What exactly do you all mean about story, do you all have stories that you are trying to convey in your pictures?

Thanks for any advice and love having a little more time in my life right now to check back into this great site always so much fun and information.

I tell them "there's only so much you can do to 'fix' a photo. A lot depends on what you start out with." Then, if they still want it done, I tell them, "I'm really swamped right now, but if you want to pay my retouching rate - $75 / hour with a .5 hour min PER PHOTO, I'll put you in my processing queue."

I can't help you on the story, you'll have to come up with that one on your own.

[NgaiHill]

Here's my 2 cents.....

I wouldn't make changes to someone else's photos, I've had it happen to me and I was not happy about it. There is a discussion on this board at the moment on the same subject and the general consensus would seem to be that it is bad form to edit someone else's work - would you dodge & burn the Mona Lisa? I would tell my friends, politely, that I couldn't edit someone else's work - that it just isn't my right to do that. Hopefully they get the message that its also not right for them to do so either.
As for editing their cell phone shots - I think you'd be heading down a long slippery slope there - perhaps instead you could point them in the direction of free, easily downloadable PP software - GIMP, Picasa, etc - and show them how to do the edits themselves. If they are wanting to take nicer photos and the cell phone is just not doing it for them, perhaps they need to look at getting an actual camera, even just a cheap P & S.

Now what was your other question? Oh yeah, telling a story. Like you I don't often have a "story" in mind when I take a photo - if you have a stunning landscape or a macro for example does it need a story or is it just a record of that scene/object? I think that a lot of the time when those critiquing ask for a story is that perhaps the shot lacks a strong focal point and therefore it is hard to understand why the the photographer clicked the shutter at that point. Don't be afraid to post in the Critique section though - its a great learning tool both for the OP and for others who follow the thread, I know I have learnt a lot from the critique section and not always on my own photos.

[PowerPix]

Originally Posted by ottojoe

Ok, to all the great people here I have 2 simple questions.

What do you do when very good friends keep asking for you to fix photos they get from someone else, and even (ugh) their cell phones to look more like the photos I do?

And also, I am always so afraid to post to the critique sections here - I see so much of "what story are you trying to convey?", very few times when I am shooting do I have a story in mind, I am just seeing beauty and trying to capture it. What exactly do you all mean about story, do you all have stories that you are trying to convey in your pictures?

Thanks for any advice and love having a little more time in my life right now to check back into this great site always so much fun and information.

Like Jim, I think you should have a retouching fee.....if THEY took the photo. If it is someone elses photo you have no right to edit it without express permission. We live in a lawsuit happy society and all someone needs to tip them off is "he edited my photo and I did not say he could", just be on the safe side. I know that may be a bit far out there, but there are a lot of assholes and you can't fix stupid. See what I'm saying?

Now for your question on critique. Jump in. Forget all the cheesy "what story are you going for?" questions. Those are just people who couldn't think hard enough for something intelligent thing to say. I can't stand the "story" posts.

I see it, I like it, I shoot it, what do you think? Even if there was a story, does it change the photo? No. It is simple.

[Chip]

The way I make sense of the "story" question is to change it to "why did you press the shutter?" In other words, what about the scene in your photo caught your eye, what drew you to the shot, etc.?

Was it dramatic light? A smiling face? Texture? Natural beauty? Interesting shapes? Shadows? Something else?

If someone asks the "story" question, then maybe the reason why the shutter was pressed isn't apparent to the person given the critique.

My 2 cents.

[PowerPix]

I think it is irrelevant. The simple fact is do you like it or not? What do you like/dislike? Any suggestions on improvements? We don't need to interrogate each poster as to why they took the photo in the first place. I believe this is what is turning most people away from the critique sections. Plenty of photographers would love to have their work critiqued but can't come up with some elaborate explanation of a story for their photo. It's one of those things that just 'is'.

"I thought this looked appealing so I shot it"

What is currently happening is an obligatory feeling to have a story: "if I don't have a story, I can't post"

If you have suggestions and just critique for what you think needs to be changed, they can then make adjustments next time and become better at "stories" for their photos in the future....If they want.

[Chip]

Originally Posted by PowerPix

"I thought this looked appealing so I shot it"

I do that all the time, too.

Personally, I don't think I've ever used the "story" word/question when critiquing a photo. So, I'm just guessing . . .

But, I think people are too hung up on the word "story." To me, every photo that has a clear subject/point of interest tells a "story." For example, a photo of a flower, with nice light and a blurred, uniform background tells a "story." And if I see such a photo, I have a pretty clear idea of why the photographer pressed the shutter.

If someone doesn't "get" the "story" in a photo, maybe it is just a lazy way to do a critique. Or, maybe the person doing the critique is using "story" as shorthand for "I don't understand what the subject is supposed to be."

Another way to say it is that a good photo should convey something. If not, it arguably lacks a "story." Or a focus point. Or a clear subject. Or some place where the eye can rest. Or, something that makes the viewer think "Oh! That's why the shutter was pressed."

Maybe some of the "story" people will drop by and tell me if I'm completely off base.

[graciousness]

I think the comment, "what story are you trying to convey" isn't necessarily focusing on finding a story to the photo presented, but perhaps, it's more of a loose questioning on the focal point or subject of the image.

Normally, when someone asks that, I think the viewer is trying to draw out what it is in the image that attracted the photographer, as the subject or focal point may be lost or lacking to the viewer.

It's all about composition. What is it that the photographer is composing?

I find that this question is usually asked in landscape shots, where the image is lacking any focal point or subject. Normally, it's just a snap shot of a scene that simply lacks any point of interest. What our eyes see in real life that seems vibrant and lively may not necessarily transpose on photos. Hence, often we see shots (usually from beginners) where the scene may look lovely, but subjectively looks bland or uninteresting to a new viewer. This is more prominent if the photo is lacking technical skills.

So in portraits, the comments you would get is "that's just a snapshot" as a comparison.

To summarise and simplify, when someone says, "what story are you trying to convey" what they are really saying is, "this picture is boring - but let me try and motivate you to taking better shots next time by looking for more interesting subjects or focus in your shots by asking you to give me a story."

So it's not about a story. It's about point of interest.

That's how I interpret it, anyway.

[ottojoe]

Thanks everyone for the great replies - this really clears it up for me.

I do not edit other photographers pictures - I have read the thread on forum and am totally in agreement of this as I don't want anyone editing my shots. Most of the time this request comes from friends on thier own photography or from family snapshots. I hate asking friends to pay me for it as I do see it as getting some practice on PP, however I loved the idea of suggesting downloading free editing programs and even giving some direction but have everyone do it themselves. Maybe then they will see that it is quiet a bit of work on a poorly shot photo and help them to practice more to become better.

Thank you all for helping explain the story thing. I will take the leap and start posting to critique instead of share your shots as I do want to keep growing and learning. For those of you who explained that maybe this is generic for no real subject or focus, if my photos do not have these I would really want to know.

Thanks to all and have a great Easter Weekend.