How does copyright apply in schools?

[NicoleScraps]

My daughter (5th grade) came home from school today really excited about a project that her music teacher has the class doing. The students are to pair up, pick a song & photos and the teacher will assist them into making a slide show.
My daughter gave me a big speach about who her partner will be, what song they chose and the type of photos that she wants. I asked her where she plans to get the photos from, is she supposed to take them herself? She said no, they can just get them off the internet.
I immediately felt uneasy about this. The teacher is encouraging them to steal photos off the internet? But do the same rules apply in an educational situation? I have no idea. I personally do not want to encourage this. If she is to do this project then WE will take the photos. What's your take on this?

[FitzTML]

This would most likely qualify for fair use under the copyright laws. While it may be a good practice to have a lesson about copyright, educators pretty much have free reign.

[Jim Bryant]

That's pretty much true, a sad thought, through teaching kids to steal at such a young age.

[jdepould]

Originally Posted by FitzTML

This would most likely qualify for fair use under the copyright laws. While it may be a good practice to have a lesson about copyright, educators pretty much have free reign.

Probably.

Originally Posted by Jim Bryant

That's pretty much true, a sad thought, through teaching kids to steal at such a young age.

In 5th grade, they're probably old enough to understand when it's OK to use other peoples' work and when it isn't, as long as it's explained clearly.

[refreshinglyblue]

Fair use will only cover so much. If the entirety of the photos used in a presentation are snagged from a single source, that could get you into trouble.

[mikerob2334]

Originally Posted by refreshinglyblue

Fair use will only cover so much. If the entirety of the photos used in a presentation are snagged from a single source, that could get you into trouble.

Doesn't matter. For a 5th grade educational project like this, I could snag 1,000 photos from the same source and it's still gonna be fair use. Taking photos without releases OR using copyrighted works without permission, both come down to the same issue: IT ALL DEPENDS ON HOW IT IS USED

Here's the section from copyright law:

§107 · Limitationsonexclusiverights:Fairuse40
Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include—
(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copy- righted work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copy- righted work. The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if
such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

[dakwegmo]

Why not use the opportunity to teach your daughter something the schools aren't? There are plenty of photographers that are more than willing to let their work be used for such a project. Flickr and google image search will let you do advanced searches for images that have open licenses. You can also teach her how to contact a photographer or musician to get permission to use material that isn't available for general use.

[refreshinglyblue]

Originally Posted by mikerob2334

Doesn't matter. For a 5th grade educational project like this, I could snag 1,000 photos from the same source and it's still gonna be fair use. Taking photos without releases OR using copyrighted works without permission, both come down to the same issue: IT ALL DEPENDS ON HOW IT IS USED

Here's the section from copyright law:

§107 · Limitationsonexclusiverights:Fairuse40
Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include—
(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copy- righted work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copy- righted work. The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if
such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

Actually, based on section 3 (which you quoted), the proportion of what is used does matter -- deciding if fair use applies does not completely boil down to the purpose of the presentation. This can be a very nebulous area, a fact which is even stated on the government's copyright website. Is somebody going to raise a stink over a 5th grade presentation? No. While fair use applies to most educational settings and shouldn't be a cause for worry, the official website states that an acceptable example of fair use is "reproduction by a ... student of a small part of a work". There is no set percentage which we can point to and declare infringement or not, but there are limits to an otherwise generous degree of flexibility.

[NicoleScraps]

Originally Posted by dakwegmo

Why not use the opportunity to teach your daughter something the schools aren't? There are plenty of photographers that are more than willing to let their work be used for such a project. Flickr and google image search will let you do advanced searches for images that have open licenses. You can also teach her how to contact a photographer or musician to get permission to use material that isn't available for general use.

This is a great suggestion. I had already planned on trying to take as many of the photos as possible ourselves, but maybe we could go through the process of getting permission for any other photos that she might need.

[mshockley]

Originally Posted by dakwegmo

Why not use the opportunity to teach your daughter something the schools aren't? There are plenty of photographers that are more than willing to let their work be used for such a project. Flickr and google image search will let you do advanced searches for images that have open licenses. You can also teach her how to contact a photographer or musician to get permission to use material that isn't available for general use.

this is a nice reply. An education within the education!