Portrait vs. candid

[BigFuzzy]

Hey all.. I've thought about making a suggestion for change here on the forums, but thought, instead, I would see if I'm way off in my thinking by throwing it up here for debate.

Ok, as some may know, I spend pretty much all of my time here on DPS in the portraits forum, and I know what I'm about to say may make me sound like snob...

With that disclaimer, to me, a candid shot of someone on a street, or at a bus stop, or walking etc is not a portrait, it's a candid. Yes I know that the definition of portrait notes that it's "any likeness of a person".. but to me, it's just not the same.

And I was thinking of suggesting that they create another category of "candid" so that the portrait section could be limited to thought-out portraits instead of candids/snap-shots/off the cuff street scenes.. etc.

What do you guys think? And yes, you're simply allowed to say "Al, you're being a snob"...

But hey, it's my opinion and my tastes, I guess I should believe in them, right?

So, are you for two sections: "Portraits" and "Candids" (or even "candid portraits").. or should we keep it as is?

[wanda_whitehead]

I actually agree with you...but then again I am just learning so my opinion may not count for much.

[candidrachel]

BigFuzzy! You're not a snob. I think "candid portraits" would be fine. I'm a snob because I hate "studio" shots I think they are too cheesy and don't convey the "real you" but like everything that's my opinion.

My definition of a candid portrait is capturing the true personality and character and that can't be captured in a studio setting.

This is why I am slightly snobby - its usually because the lower end of the social spectrum has those awful Olan Mills type photos hanging on their walls - a pet peeve of mine.

[summerbl4ck]

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to get at. Are you talking about shooting strangers "on a street, or at a bus stop, or walking etc"? That would be street photography, no? Or is it studio vs. outdoor or looking at the camera vs. not? It seems to me like you're saying you have a preference for a certain kind of portrait. And to that, I would say that not everyone would share that definition, and it wouldn't seem to justify changing the nature of the forum.

[Niresangwa]

I think it'd be nice to break out the portrait critique section. I imagine it's a case of not wanting to have 3 dozen different subforums, however. Be nice to get a 'my child critique' section though

[RLucas]

I posted some images of a belly dancer the other day in the portraits section of SYS. I thought about this a while, and deleted the post, because the more I thought about it, the more it became obvious to me, anyway, that these shots were not portraits. In my mind, portraits are planned with the subject before hand, and usually involve static poses and a lighting situation that is thought of before hand, even if only using available light. But hey,that's just me.........

[BigFuzzy]

Originally Posted by summerbl4ck

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to get at. Are you talking about shooting strangers "on a street, or at a bus stop, or walking etc"? That would be street photography, no? Or is it studio vs. outdoor or looking at the camera vs. not? It seems to me like you're saying you have a preference for a certain kind of portrait. And to that, I would say that not everyone would share that definition, and it wouldn't seem to justify changing the nature of the forum.

Good question summerbl4ck. Maybe this will make it clearer as to how I see it.
Photo taken of a person from a distance at a bus stop waiting = candid
photo of your friend/family/child who's unaware of you = candid
photo of same friend/fam/child who you've told you're taking a photo of = portrait
photo in studio = portrait
photo out on the street in natural light, planned = portrait
photo of fans at a sporting event = candid
101 photos of your child puttering around the house = candid
101 photos of your child where you've put thought into the shot = portrait
I think that covers the way I think about it.

And, just to remind all, I'm not judging those photos in term of quality or value, just in terms of how they're defined. I'm not saying they're less worthy, just not something I think fits the category of "portrait".

Rachel - despite your hate for the studio work, I think you'd still believe that those are more akin a portrait like your style than a candid of someone walking in the street.. right? And thank you for thinking i'm not a snob hehe.

Niresangwa, yeah, I imagine that's the point, to keep things tidy.. but I think portraits (as I see them) and candids are broad enough to be well populated. All street work could go in candids. But yeah, don't get me started on children or else Rachel will have my head! Plus I'd be a hypocrite as I make money off those exact sorts of shots..

I agree Luke.. but where else were you to put that image? I still think portraits was the best, but had we a Candid forum.. you'd easily have a home for it, right?

Anyway.. anyone else with a view on this.

P.S. Rachel.. "Olan Mills" leave Benji out of this.

[i speak in math]

I totally agree that something needs to be done in the portrait sections. I have stopped even looking in there. I used to go through thread after thread only to find terrible candids of the photographers child, out of focus, half blown out and terribly composed. No thought or skill put into them at all. Just random snapshots of their kid they wanted to share because its their kid.

These are not portraits.

Out of curiosity, I ventured in there after writing this. Its like getting shot in the face with a shotgun stuffed full of awful photos. There were a few threads (2 or 3) that contained good shots (I'm looking at you, SusanH1970) but most of the shots in there I would have tossed instantly. They aren't worth keeping on disk let alone sharing.

I'm sure I sound like a huge dick now but it had to be said.

[Quo Fan]

I don't go into the portrait section, but the way I see the difference is a portrait is a shot where the photographer tells the subject how to pose, where to put their hands, where to look, etc. A candid is where the subject is "just doing something, or nothing".

Maybe a little too simplified, but those are my definitions.

[BigFuzzy]

@I Speak in math - yeah, total dick. We'll get along well!

I agree with you for the most part, but I also don't lose track that mostly they are people trying to learn, and I'm arrogant enough to think I can help as I know you can.. you've just probably been around longer and lost patience heh. But they do have to start somewhere and we definitely can't have different forums for diff skill levels.. who'd judge?! (Besides me of course! )

I must admit, the random snapshots of the kids is a big reason I've been thinking about this. Though I'm understanding b/c I know lots of parents don't have time to put into getting "proper" portraits, so I cut them some slack and try to help when I have the energy though I tend to stay away from kids shots for fear of insulting someone.

Quo Fan..yes simplified. Yes, also accurate (in my humble opinion).