Church VBS/awana and Photographers rights

[Greenhousegirl]

I hope I can get some good answers, though I know I can not use it as true legal advice. I also hope that if someone finds themselves in this same situation that they can use any and all advice that may turn up on this thread to help them. God Bless.
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I usually take Photos at my church every year for awana and for vbs. I then produce a slide show from the photos that is displayed on the last day when the parents are visiting. I've never had any complaints from church members, outside parents, or the kids.
Vacation Bible School has a photo frame craft every year, I set up a sheet and take portraits of the kids to put in their photo frames. I have walmart print them and I have the church reimburse me for the cost from the vbs craft budget.

After doing this for nearly 3 years, suddenly someone has a problem. One of the church members (church administrator) says that it is illegal for me to be photographing the children. The CA (church admin.) says that I need to get photo releases from ALL of the children (all 100 or so!) and vbs is less than a week away! The CA compromised and said I may do the portraits of the children for the photo frame but I may not take pictures of them anywhere else (snack time, outdoors, sanctuary, lobby, classroom, etc. ).

I have done much reading on photography rights in the past and have come to the conclusion that in this situation unless the church posts signs saying no "photography allowed" or I try to sell the photos somewhere (ie make money) that I am within my rights and do not need to get photo releases from all of these children and or their parents.
I am not going to pursue the situation and will let it drop and only do portraits for crafts. I do not want to start a fight with anyone. But if this situation comes up again I would like to be able to prove to them that what I am doing is not illegal.
The church secretary and the head of the VBS committee also agrees that it makes no sense that I would need photography releases since the work I do is not for profit.

My questions are:
Am I correct in my assumptions or is CA correct that I need releases?
If I am correct would I also be legally allowed to post the pictures on the church web site and use them in the bulletin (ect) to promote childrens ministry?
What should I say or do if one of the parents are to get angry that i took a photograph of thier child? and used it in the end of the year/week video presentation slide show?
If I am not correct then, Do I still need to get photography releases to do the portraits for the craft?

[BigVinnie]

I could have sooo much fun with the title of this post and fear of lawyers, but I wont.

Bottom line is they are full of crap. Only place you cannot photograph is where there is an expectation of privacy.

You do however need a parental release for using these photos to endorse or promote the church and related activities. Even though the church is a non-profit it qualifies as a commercial endorsement. I know this from personal experience.

Taking photos documenting the activities for parents and for crafts is perfectly acceptable. As a parent myself I would welcome it.

[CharlieJ]

You and BigVinnie are right. The CA is dead wrong and doesn't know what s/he is talking about. Go shoot your pics, put them on the slide show and in the craft frames and enjoy yourself -- and the kids. Just don't post the pics on a commercial website or sell them as advertising, etc.

[Greenhousegirl]

Thank you BigVinnie for the advice. Its much appreciated, and I will keep the part about commercial use in mind if I ever have a church person ask to use my pictures for promoting childrens ministry (for example) I will make sure to tell them that I need to get model releases/photography releases first.

Thank you, and God Bless.

[Elmo]

From an experienced church photographer!!

I have serious doubts the real issue is model releases!! Think about it most parents whose children attending these events SHOULD be happy to have family members photo used to promote the cause. There is some other underlying issue (like someone else wants to be the photographer, just to mention one of a million reasons). My suggestion is to continue on until your pastor says different.

I have been through several of these in my time and won some lost some.

[Jim Bryant]

Originally Posted by Elmo

From an experienced church photographer!!

I have serious doubts the real issue is model releases!! Think about it most parents whose children attending these events SHOULD be happy to have family members photo used to promote the cause. There is some other underlying issue (like someone else wants to be the photographer, just to mention one of a million reasons). My suggestion is to continue on until your pastor says different.

I have been through several of these in my time and won some lost some.

Elmo - After reading the postings I was thinking the same. However, when photographing children in a school environment, one needs to get parents consent. I see nothing work in a church setting and it's something you've done for three years. You need to talk to the Pastor, who's in charge of this church administrator and have him set them straight.

[Greenhousegirl]

Thank you all for the kind replies.
I tried, but no one would listen.
I think I will just not take pictures, and if anyone complains about lack of pictures I will tell them to take it up with the CA and pastor and tell them that I was told I needed a model release even though legally one was not required. I will finish out the work I have already promised to do but I will not be helping them any more.
I have decided, for other reasons as well, to leave the church. I am not going to stay at a place that does not appreciate me being there and doing what I volunteer to do.
My other reasons include but are not limited to:
* a lack of people my age and station in life
* a lack of willing helpers in the church (I do about 8 peoples work becuase no one is willing to do anything)
* backstabbing
* drama (this photography model release crap fits right in the category)

[tuxcomputers]

Originally Posted by Greenhousegirl

I tried, but no one would listen.
......
* a lack of willing helpers in the church

I reckon those two points are linked, don't you think?

"Together we are smarter than any of us." ---forgot who but it was someone smart.