Use of lyrics in a photo book

[Tyler]

I'm putting together a photography book and I'd like to use some lyrics within the book. I don't expect to become rich/famous from the book but it has become something that I'm excited about and I'm just wondering if I need to contact the band for permission? I know people use quotes in books all the time but I'm guessing lyrics are copyrighted and I'll need permission first. Does anyone have any experience with this?

Thanks for your time

--Tyler

[wulf]

How much are you planning on quoting? A couple of lines here and there (with an appropropriate credit) probably falls under "fair use" (although you need to check how that works in Tennessee / the USA).

Wulf

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by wulf

How much are you planning on quoting? A couple of lines here and there (with an appropropriate credit) probably falls under "fair use" (although you need to check how that works in Tennessee / the USA).

Wulf

Good point Wulf. I'd like to use 11 words from one song...basically one sentence. Credit will be given of course-Should it be just the name of the band or a combination of band and song title?

[zona5101]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Good point Wulf. I'd like to use 11 words from one song...basically one sentence. Credit will be given of course-Should it be just the name of the band or a combination of band and song title?

the name of the songwrite

[BCampbell]

I would not jump to the fair use conclusion so quickly.

Here's that the US Copyright Office says about it:
U.S. Copyright Office - Fair Use

I'm specifically concerned about points #1 and 3. Your book obviously does not serve an educational purpose. And, while quoting one sentence of a 300-page book is clearly fair use, 11 words of a song is proportionally much larger.

There is no specific "law" or definition governing fair use, as you can read at that link it is a grey area taken on a case by case basis. You may be able to find previous case law regarding the use of a quote of similar length from a song of similar length in a book similar to yours.

I think you should also consider the fact that you're dealing with a creative work, and the owners of that work probably have strong feelings about its use and representation. Just as you might not like a photo of yours being used to represent something antithetical to your purpose for taking it, it's a courtesy to make sure the band/lyric owner approves the connection of their words to your image. Think Reagan + "Born in the USA".

You're really best off getting a lawyer. Second best, asking for permission. Don't forget the potential marketing opportunity; if the band likes your use of their lyrics, they may give you a shout out to their fans. All in all, if you choose not to ask permission, it's likely they'll never know; but if they do find it and seek legal action, the fact that you're selling a physical object means the ramifications are much deeper than a simple cease and desist.

I'm not a lawyer, so take the above as you will. Someone with more professional knowledge (instead of random strangers on the Internet) would be a better help.

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by BCampbell

I would not jump to the fair use conclusion so quickly.

Here's that the US Copyright Office says about it:
U.S. Copyright Office - Fair Use

I'm specifically concerned about points #1 and 3. Your book obviously does not serve an educational purpose. And, while quoting one sentence of a 300-page book is clearly fair use, 11 words of a song is proportionally much larger.

There is no specific "law" or definition governing fair use, as you can read at that link it is a grey area taken on a case by case basis. You may be able to find previous case law regarding the use of a quote of similar length from a song of similar length in a book similar to yours.

I think you should also consider the fact that you're dealing with a creative work, and the owners of that work probably have strong feelings about its use and representation. Just as you might not like a photo of yours being used to represent something antithetical to your purpose for taking it, it's a courtesy to make sure the band/lyric owner approves the connection of their words to your image. Think Reagan + "Born in the USA".

You're really best off getting a lawyer. Second best, asking for permission. Don't forget the potential marketing opportunity; if the band likes your use of their lyrics, they may give you a shout out to their fans. All in all, if you choose not to ask permission, it's likely they'll never know; but if they do find it and seek legal action, the fact that you're selling a physical object means the ramifications are much deeper than a simple cease and desist.

I'm not a lawyer, so take the above as you will. Someone with more professional knowledge (instead of random strangers on the Internet) would be a better help.

All very good points - Thanks for the link and for your insight. I'd hate to go so far as to get an attorney for a 40+ page Blurb book with some iPhone pictures I've taken. I don't have a problem asking for permission as I feel that's the right thing to do and if they say "No", at least I know.

They would probably never find out but I'd feel more comfortable using their lyrics if I get permission. I think the context in which the lyrics will be used is good and the two subjects, to me anyway, compliment each other. But, I can completely understand them wanting to make sure their lyrics aren't used in some odd, off-the-wall way.

[wulf]

Are you publishing it as a commercial venture rather than just a few copies for friends and family? If so, it might be worth taking the time to cover your back and at least firing off a few emails (and then dropping use of any lyrics from those who don't respond). Perhaps sweeten things a bit by sending them a link where they can get an idea of the image the lyrics will be put next to?

Alternatively, if the songs are pretty well known (at least to your intended audience), perhaps it would be reasonable to publish something like Suggested soundtrack: "Foxy Lady" by Jimi Hendrix. It isn't quite the same as including evocative lyrics but might get near enough.

Of course, IANAL!

Wulf

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by wulf

Are you publishing it as a commercial venture rather than just a few copies for friends and family? If so, it might be worth taking the time to cover your back and at least firing off a few emails (and then dropping use of any lyrics from those who don't respond). Perhaps sweeten things a bit by sending them a link where they can get an idea of the image the lyrics will be put next to?

Alternatively, if the songs are pretty well known (at least to your intended audience), perhaps it would be reasonable to publish something like Suggested soundtrack: "Foxy Lady" by Jimi Hendrix. It isn't quite the same as including evocative lyrics but might get near enough.

Of course, IANAL!

Wulf

The book will be available in the Blurb marketplace but I highly doubt it will actually make me any money. I already found a couple of email addresses that I'll use to contact someone. Also, I planned on sending a couple of screenshots of the lyric's intended use and I thought about sending them a copy to say thank you.

I don't think the lyrics are very well know. The song is Lateralus from Tool - they have a big following but I'm pretty sure lyrics for that song are widely known to people who don't listen to them.

I plan on putting together a couple of screenshots this weekend and emailing them for permission. I'll be sure to let you know what they say.

[IABoomer]

Any follow-up to this? I was considering doing one photo with a lyrical caption, and while I don't necessarily plan on selling prints, I'd hate to have to tell someone "No" because of the lyric.

[theosus]

Seems like a lot of trouble for a photo book you don't plan on selling. I'd keep it "private", print off your copies for friends and family, and not worry about permission...
If you really want to sell it just leave out the lyrics.