Just got some images accepted to Getty!

[BCampbell]

Jim, you're criticizng the poster without even knowing all the of facts surrounding the transaction. I usually agree with your points on rates and pro vs. amateur selling, but you need to cool it off once in a while.

[Jim Bryant]

Well, as you know, my 2cents worth, if you want to make money.....prepare yourself before hand, like ask for advice here first before jumping the gun. That's why we are here as to protect the industry marketplace.

[Photoboothguy]

Originally Posted by Jim Bryant

DO you realize what a photographers makes when one of his images goes on nation wide marketing ad? How about 12K upwards. Man, that $500.00 might look good for you, but you got screwed and you're also screwing those advertising photographers who make a living. FlickR is killing the market........did you bother to asked just how much they made on the deal?

Blah, blah, blah...I got $500 for doing nothing. I took a photo for fun and someone paid me for it. I don't see the problem. It helped pay for my new Sigma 70-200 f2.8, which I need to shoot weddings for $100

And 12K is a stretch...maybe 2 or 3k. Yeah, I could've said "Pay me 3,000" and they could've given me the finger and walked. Instead, I got $500 in my account 3 hours after initial contact and got to keep the rights to my photo...I think 98% of the photographers on this forum would've done the same.

And if you think my photos are worth more than that, I'll gladly sell them all to you for a 5DMarkII

[Dennismc]

Gotta ask Jim,

Regarding your statement on flikr and the like killing the market, How many national ads or the like are really bought from sites like flikr? Isnt that the exception rather then the norm?

I would think its more the greedy marketing company that is paying some guy 500.00 bucks for a photo then charging the xxK figure to the buyer. A amateur that is not trying to make it in the big leagues but just trying to take a few pics for FUN and gets offered 500 bucks for one, isnt going to cause a dimple in the overall market.

Now the company going out and looking for these types of people/photos to buy on the cheap to resell ARE killing the market and that is not a fault of the guy taking the pic.

Just starting out and not being a pro by any means, or even a semi-pro, but someone who takes pics for fun, memories etc, I personally would jump on a 500.00 dollar offer. Could he had said why excuse me sir, but the going rate for a photo for a national campaign in this field is XX dollars, and most likely gotten the response, yes that is true, from a profession photographer, can we see some more of your work? Any other photos published? etc.. Then walked away from it and found another pic from a amateur and paid them 500.00 bucks instead.

Now if there is someone of your level, with the contacts and background going around selling the same types of photos to the ad agency's for 500 bucks, then there is a problem, he or she would have the contacts, the experience to know better and is just doing ti for the sack of undercutting the market and others like you, bitch at him/her.

Hell I make custom wood pens, all hand made, turned etc I sell my high end pens for around 250.00 bucks a pen, there are others that make theirs and sell the same components in theres as mine, for upwards of a grand! Are we hurting each other? Nope. They have been doing it longer and have a established base.

Example is my Irish Bog Oak pen, wood is carbon dated to 10,000 years old, straight from the bogs in Ireland, mine sell for 300.00, others with basically the same finish, go for a grand!

[Jim Bryant]

Originally Posted by Photoboothguy

Blah, blah, blah...I got $500 for doing nothing. I took a photo for fun and someone paid me for it. I don't see the problem. It helped pay for my new Sigma 70-200 f2.8, which I need to shoot weddings for $100

And 12K is a stretch...maybe 2 or 3k. Yeah, I could've said "Pay me 3,000" and they could've given me the finger and walked. Instead, I got $500 in my account 3 hours after initial contact and got to keep the rights to my photo...I think 98% of the photographers on this forum would've done the same.

And if you think my photos are worth more than that, I'll gladly sell them all to you for a 5DMarkII

Blah, blah blah, so you sold a photo for $500.00 for a nation wide ad for doing nothing.
Photos for nation - wide ads get 12k upwards, if you did research before selling the photo , you would have getting enough money for 2 5DMKII's. Besides...what rights did you grant them? Limited, one-time publication rights for what media? Billboards, magazines, web and TV usage. North American rights, how about International rights? If I was the ad rep, I'd be laughing at ya, because they can turn around and not pay you one penny for all those other usage rights. Which, would be more than 12K................. a hell of a lot more! So now that $500.00 you got for doing nuthin doesn't sound so good anymore does it? Just think if you just did a little more research instead of counting your pennies. Apparently, it's you, not me, who doesn't think much of your images.

[Charmed]

Personally Jim, I think the guy who took the photo for nothing more than fun, and made $500 out of it will be laughing regardless of what you say. I personally congratulate him for it. Every photographer has to start somewhere, and he has made a start with no effort at all.
Just because you're not happy about it doesn't mean the rest of us feel the same way. How about giving the guy a little credit for selling a picture first, then offer some friendly advise on what he can do next time. Instead of acting all high and mighty.

[ressalg]

Originally Posted by Jim Bryant

Blah, blah blah, so you sold a photo for $500.00 for a nation wide ad for doing nothing.
Photos for nation - wide ads get 12k upwards, if you did research before selling the photo , you would have getting enough money for 2 5DMKII's. Besides...what rights did you grant them? Limited, one-time publication rights for what media? Billboards, magazines, web and TV usage. North American rights, how about International rights? If I was the ad rep, I'd be laughing at ya, because they can turn around and not pay you one penny for all those other usage rights. Which, would be more than 12K................. a hell of a lot more! So now that $500.00 you got for doing nuthin doesn't sound so good anymore does it? Just think if you just did a little more research instead of counting your pennies. Apparently, it's you, not me, who doesn't think much of your images.

Well, at least now, if I ever get an offer to buy one of my pictures for an ad campaign, I know who to ask what I should charge. You are available 24 hours a day, right Jim?

[Jim Bryant]

Originally Posted by Charmed

Personally Jim, I think the guy who took the photo for nothing more than fun, and made $500 out of it will be laughing regardless of what you say. I personally congratulate him for it. Every photographer has to start somewhere, and he has made a start with no effort at all.
Just because you're not happy about it doesn't mean the rest of us feel the same way. How about giving the guy a little credit for selling a picture first, then offer some friendly advise on what he can do next time. Instead of acting all high and mighty.

You missed the whole point!
There's too many that do this with no effort at all, that's why there's too many instant pros!
Gotta research the marketplace and find out what the going price for images are. Hope ya'll are at least educated now by my posts on this Money for Nuthin posts

[Charmed]

Originally Posted by Jim Bryant

You missed the whole point!
There's too many that do this with no effort at all, that's why there's too many instant pros!
Gotta research the marketplace and find out what the going price for images are. Hope ya'll are at least educated now by my posts on this Money for Nuthin posts

I haven't missed the point at all.
The guy who sold the photo isn't a professional, therefore he would not command the sort of fee a pro would. Once he gets more of a name for himself, then he will be able to command a better fee. Everyone has to start somewhere.
I understand where you are coming from, and if he does decide to go down the route of charging for his photo's on a more regular basis, then yes he will need to do more research. But that time wil come, and thanks to people like you he will know what he needs to do when that time comes.
Now how about giving him some encouragement rather than putting him down.

[Niresangwa]

I think Jim's comment isn't just aimed at photoboothguy, but a general frustration at the whole situation, (not that I presume to speak for him, he certainly doesnt need me to do that).

One of my clients is an executive at a dominant marketing firm in Milwaukee. They just let go two of their three in-house photographers because its cheaper to use stock than custom, and she said they frequently pull stunts like this simply because its an easy way to do it. They lowball and get as many rights as they can get, and are making huge profits on it, and the process is stable enough that they can see a steady method. If they need custom, they have the option of their in-house or a freelance. She said they find what they need for next to nothing 80% of the time though.

Would I have taken the $500 from a cold offer? I sure would. However, after reading this thread, if it were offered tomorrow, I'd at least ask a few more questions.

Regardless of whether it was industry leader Silas Mc-Loads-of-Gear who took the image, or whether it was Uncle Harry who got lucky with his new Rebel, the image is worth precisely what someone is willing to pay for it. Chances are if their first offer was $500, they would have paid more, but to some it's not worth the risk of losing the sale by trying to negotiate. It's a guarantee that that company had a short list of images they wanted, and as soon as they felt they were dealing with someone about to try and wring more cash for it, they would have moved to option B, if they hadn't offered option B $500 for his image already.

So just as wedding and portrait photographers are getting their knickers in a twist over "noobs" undercutting, this is just another instance of that same process happening in commercial photography.

For me, I'm happy for Photoboothguy, he's a good contributer to the forums and more luck to him. In this case a sorry, sketchy situation paid off for one of our own.

That doesnt detract from the legitimacy of Jim's points though, even if he does spray his wrath like a tommy gun sometimes