Product photography pricing & rights

[kimrose]

I just finished up my first product shoot for a client who is a friend of a friend and while he loves the shots, he is having an issue with my pricing and photo rights. I've searched and read through this forum for help and found some great advice and links, however I'm just getting more and more confused and frustrated so I thought I'd ask for some advice!

Here's the deal... I did not charge him a session fee, that was my "friend deal". He is a web designer creating a web site for his client whose product I shot, which was a glass water bottle (not easy). This was what I estimated for him on the pricing:

Web licensing fee:
$50 per image per year (with image credit back to me)
or
$100 per image per year (with no credit)

Note, this is for web only. He told me that his client will want to use the photos for print ads as well. I didn't even get to give him that pricing yet.

In my opinion I am giving him a great deal! I mean from what I've researched this is very under priced.

This was his response:
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These prices are a bit higher than I expected, especially If am only getting a year license with restrictions. I would consider $50.00 per image with full rights and no time restrictions. I am only interested in royalty free images. I don’t want to be restricted with licensing, licensing timeframes or adding credits to my designs.
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So any advice on what I should do from here? I just feel like he's trying to take advantage of me.... now I'm just frustrated. I've never had to deal with this kind of pricing/rights before and I want to do this right. I already regret not charging him the session fee seeing as I spent over 2 wks taking the shots out in the desert and light tent shots and then processing.

[acedrew]

It sounds like he is comparing your images to stock photos available online, but it's his client's product, that's not stock...
I too would lean away from a yearly licensing fee, it's their product, they should be able to use the images. for whatever. And it's your time and knowledge that made the shot, YOU should be getting paid for your time. I think you chose a bad model for your pricing here. I would do more money and unlimited use.

Andrew Rodgers
Perfected Perspectives -- Photography by Andrew Rodgers | Andrew Rodgers (acedrew) on Twitter | Login | Facebook

[kimrose]

Thanks so much for your thoughts Andrew! I instantly thought stock photos as well...

Well, I wrote him back and let him know that my photos are not stock photos and the value of them is greater because its the actual clients products image that is being used to sell that product. But I said it in a very nice and polite way

I'm also doing away with the yearly liscence. But I will not go lower on my pricing! I've already given him one heck of a deal and learned my own lesson. From now on for product photos I will come up with the pricing first, in writing, and have the client sign before even taking one photo.

Just to add in, in case anyone else learning about pricing product photos reads this... the other interesting thing I've learned from this experience is to charge for web use (small res), and seperately for print at different resolutions.

[acedrew]

Exactly, my photos on my website have different price point depending on what resolution you want, of course these "digital licenses" are completely seperate from the session fee, but I feel if someone want a facebook profile pic from their portrait session (1MP) , why charge more than $5 for it?

Andrew Rodgers
Perfected Perspectives -- Photography by Andrew Rodgers | Andrew Rodgers (acedrew) on Twitter | Login | Facebook

[Jim Bryant]

So what you are saying Andrew that it's okay to sell a client a picture of his product not only for a $5.00, but also give him the rights to use the photo over and over again without repayment to the photographer? You need to learn what your cost of doing business is. Folks like you are killing the photography market.
I suggest you read my threads on photo biz posted here: Everything you ever wanted to know about photography! On DPS!

Kimrose........you need to get John Harrington's book on Best Business Practices for Photographers. Has tons of helpful info geared towards protecting photographers from "friends of friends" and clients . Remember your photography will help him sell more of his products.

Also get ASMP's professional Business Practices in Photography. Also read my thread
Everything you ever wanted to know about photography! On DPS!.
Education and educating clients in the true cost of doing business is the key here. You have to educate yourself first. Don't be afraid to say no to a one sided job, such as what you just encountered.

Your time spent, scouting the location, setting up the location shooting, downloading, editing, post processing, burning the DVD's is all for zilch if you don't charge a sitting fee, production fee, scouting fee, digital capture fee, production fee and have those type of fees stated in a CONTRACT for both you and the client to sign before the shoot even begins.

A few more books that should on your lists are:
Big Bucks--Selling your photography - Cliff Hollenbeck
Business and Legal Forms for Photographers - Tad Crawford
The Law in Plain English for Photographers - Leonard d. DuBoff
The Photographer's Guide to Marketing and Self Promotion - Maria Piscopo
The Art of Business of Photography - Susan Carr.

[acedrew]

You misunderstood, I think the right to use a 1MP shitty quality, can't print version for facebook is worth $5, and not products, personal portraits, be careful before you attack people... anything else needs major more money... I was arguing that she should charge much more! Please take time to read things and understand them before attacking the writer.

And I definitely think she should have charged session fees, and by the hour no less.
I'm also saying that it seems to me from both perspectives, that paying a large amount up front for unlimited use is an easier business model. But not $5 LOL

Andrew Rodgers
Perfected Perspectives -- Photography by Andrew Rodgers | Andrew Rodgers (acedrew) on Twitter | Login | Facebook

[Jim Bryant]

Still..............traveling somewhere to a location, setting up a shot, shooting it, downloading, editing and the necessary photoshop work is worth more than five bucks, don't you think? With all the time involved that's way less than minimum wage. Do the math and figure it out!

[acedrew]

You're still not listening; that has nothing to do with session fees, and is basically only usable for social networking profile images, these are images that have already been paid for, many times over sometimes...

Andrew Rodgers
Perfected Perspectives -- Photography by Andrew Rodgers | Andrew Rodgers (acedrew) on Twitter | Login | Facebook

[Jim Bryant]

Originally Posted by acedrew

You're still not listening; that has nothing to do with session fees, and is basically only usable for social networking profile images, these are images that have already been paid for, many times over sometimes...

Andrew Rodgers
Perfected Perspectives -- Photography by Andrew Rodgers | Andrew Rodgers (acedrew) on Twitter | Login | Facebook

Didn't say anything about session fees. If you sell your pictures for $5.00 each you're more stupid that I thought.

[S.Culpepper]

Originally Posted by Jim Bryant

Didn't say anything about session fees. If you sell your pictures for $5.00 each you're more stupid that I thought.

I think he means to say, that they have already paid all the other fees and/or bought the prints themselves, and they are just looking for a low-quality, un-printable digital copy of the photo to put on their facebook/myspace. So, they are actually willing to BUY it instead of scanning/breaking copyright to use the photo on their social networking site.