A Living With Photography

[navcom]

Originally Posted by sk66

As far as "uneducated" goes, I think there is a difference. When you buy a car it has to be 100% right, or you're seriously unhappy...same with most any other product....buy meat from the grocer; it had better not be spoiled. As a minimum the basics have to be there.....IMO, "the basics" of a "professional photo" is not simply a capture of a scene....that's a snapshot.

But with a lot of photography it's more like "yup, it's a picture of me/us/it printed/presented nicely...good enough". If it's just an ok picture; of course they would be happier with a "better" picture, but they don't know what "could have been". And even if it is a truly great picture, they are not any "happier" to have recieved it for the same reasons.

Others "expect more" but can not convey "what" they want or "why" because they really just don't know. Those types of clients are generally unwilling to pay for "the more" because they have no concept of what "the more" is and what is required to deliver it.

None of this is either necessarily good or bad, but it does make things very difficult for an "aspiring pro/pro" to differentiate themselves from the masses and develop a "good" client base. By "good" I'm talking about clients who know what they want, why they want it, and are willing to pay for it.....those are the clients of a real pro IMO. (yes, there are many "levels" before that, but "real pro" is where the real money/reputation/esteem/demand is at)

I don't necessarily disagree with you on these points. But what I kind of hear with this is that the customer should like my product and conform to the way I do business and to what I think is best instead of the photographer conforming to the wants and needs of the customer.

Making a living in photography is difficult...but being successful in any business is difficult. As a grocer selling necessity products, you still have to distinguish yourself from your competition, which is legion. This is nothing new.

Each has it's own roadblocks and challenges. But I still don't completely buy the uneducated stumbling block. Customers are smarter than you think. Even knowing that prime rib or ribeye is the better meat, most will still buy the eye of round cheap steak because they can't justify the price. People know when a photograph is good. They may not be able to explain why, but if they are willing to pay for the cheaper and less talented photographer, the product is good to them. Is it possible there are better products out there? Absolutely! But it may not matter to that customer. There will always be a better artist, a better price, a better deal. But if the customer is willing to pay, and customers continue to come, it doesn't matter. You are fulfilling a market demand.

With any business, there is always a need to educate the customer about your product or service; that's what salesmanship is all about. It's not easy. But it never has been. There have been up times and down times, but overall, business has always been challenging. To many, the challenge is what makes it worth while...finding new and better ways to grow their business. Some cringe at new technology because it takes them out of their "comfort zone". Others thrive on it and use it to make their business even better.

People are initially resistant to change. It takes us to the unknown. But change is inevitable in a dynamic economy. Those who accept it usually do well because they try to use it to their advantage. I may be unpopular for saying it, but I think many reasons people want more regulation or more controls over a particular career field is so they can continue to work within their comfort zone and not have to worry about being innovative or finding new ways to do things. Photography is changing, but then again, it always has been. And it will continue to change. To be successful, you have to learn how to be succesful with inevitable change, even if it means redefining your entire job description.

The frustration you are describing is shared by anyone in any field who is passionate about their "craft". Nobody appreciates what has been sacrificed to produce the final product when viewed from the creator's eyes. And as someone who is passionate about your product, you can appreciate when the product is bad, good, or outstanding. The customer usually doesn't share this passion. They only want a product that fulfills a need, either real or perceived. When they find it, they buy it. To make a living as a photographer, the goal is to provide legal products and services people want and are willing to pay for, not just products we think they should buy. That's the bottom line if you want to make a living.

Sorry...I get a bit wordy! I learned it from my wife!

[hugy789]

Originally Posted by Jim Bryant

...what the various S-stops and shutter speeds can do for you....

Don't you mean F-stops and shutter speeds?!?!?!?

I'm confused...

[tteffom]

Originally Posted by Jim Poor

This is the only part of your post I disagree with. The difference is that day care, and heating and cool are necessities where photography, in most cases, is a luxury.

Everything else you said applies doubly so because of that slight difference.

I don't quite agree with the difference being that Photography is a luxury. For photography to be a "luxury" then you need to add "professional", and then it levels the playing field. Everyone needs photos in their lives - photos of their events, photos of their products, whatever. Not everyone can afford them. The same is true of day care. Lots of people need day care facilities, but not all can afford professional day care - and then you have to use your granny.

When you look at it like that, photography joins the other businesses.

And succeding at any business means offering a value to the customer. If that value is there, then the customer will buy. It's not about cheap - its simply "am I getting an acceptable return on the investment I am making or about to make?". If not, then $2 is too much to pay, and if yes then $20,000 is a fine price.

The most important is to concentrate on that value - and in photography that value is measured in the following main points (as I understand them):
will I get what I expect
will I get more than I expect (not the same as the above - the above is just getting the "safe shot")
is the photographer listening to what I want/expect
is the technical quality of the standard I require
is the artistict quality of the standard I require

Simple enough words, but the business won't come if they do not reflect your attitude to your work.

Then, to actually succeed as a business, you will need to plan your time, plan your budget, be able to close the sale, and find new customers.

So being a primadonna artist is going to get you nowhere, and being a great and listening artist is going to get you halfway.

If you're anything like me, get yourself a business manager (my wife) to deal with the planning and budgets, and make sure you can (or learn to if you can't) listen and talk to your customers.

[oldwolf]

I don't know what anyone is talking about. I just got my DSLR last week. Last year I was just shooting with a P&S and made well over $90,000 USD. All I had to do was dress in black, pretend I was brooding all the time over my art and people kept hiring me. I'd just tell them I was in my less is more stage so they accepted the P&S.

After getting my DSLR, now I'll be in my bigger is better stage. I still need to learn to get out of that green square mode but it's so easy to use so I'm not sure if I'll do it. I can just tell the clients green means "GO! Be awesome!". I'm sure I'll make at least three times as I made last year because bigger is better. Who cares if I forget to take the lens cap off. I just tell clients that it's how I perceive the darkness that is inside all of us. I've sold at least 10 of these images blown up to poster size for around $1,000 each.

Now, if you've actually read all of this and haven't turned off your computer in disgust, please know that I'm joking. It's early morning and I've got nothing else better to do right now.

My personal opinion on this photography as a living thing? It's like any business. You get out of it what you put in to it. It can be hard but it can be rewarding. You have to know how to market yourself. You have to be confident enough in your abilities to sell it. It's not going to be an instant success thing. It might take years of eating ramen before you are comfortable. No offense against ramen. I think it's great food and if anyone wants a good recipe to make it better let me know.

Learn as much as you can about the photography side and the business side. It will help make the journey a bit easier.

[Dianna M]

I quit my job of 19 years to pursue photography and make my hobby into a business. The first few years, I had the luxury of my husbands support and not needing my income so that I could fully immerse myself into practicing and educating myself. I'm in my forth year now and I'm really busy. I have a good portfolio, I know my camera's and my equipment, I've taken 11 photography classes, made thousands of images, studied on line information tirelessly, read countless books, etc. I've built up a little business. If I had to put food on the table with it, we'd go hungry some months. I used to work 40 hours a week at my old job. Now I work nights and weekends too. Do I regret it NO. I love what I do! BUT... my situation is a little different than some others might be. I'm semi retired. I take jobs when I want them, schedule them for later when I'm busy with other things like grandchildren, gardening and traveling. Its a very competitive business, there's lot of competition out there and every one has a DSLR camera and thinks they're good with it using their auto modes and they do get decent shots. What I do is make images using my knowledge, education and my creativity. I worked in the school system for 19 years and have 5 brothers and sister, six kids and 4 grandkids. I was born and raised on a working cattle ranch. So, I have lots of knowledge and experience that help me connect with people and animals. I strive every day to learn more, hone my business skills, get out there and shoot every day. Will I ever make money. Probably not much as there's always new equipment that I "need".

[autofocus]

You speak wise words Dianna, and it sure sounds like you have a pretty good assessment of what it's all about! I wish you continued success.

[JerBear]

Originally Posted by Ishyid

Just out of curiosity, how hard is it to make a living with photography?

I know it is just out of curiosity, but it reminds me of the times I would interview job applicants and their responses to questions. If I got the feeling that they were more concerned about how hard it would be to learn and work, then I would usually pass on them. The few times that I compromised and hired them, it never worked out. They would usually work to the point that was necessary but never go the extra mile. They were driven by the money, not the profession.

To be a pro and make a living, means hard work, BUT with that hard work brings a lot of satisfaction and self worth.

Good luck,

JM

[autofocus]

Originally Posted by JerBear

I know it is just out of curiosity, but it reminds me of the times I would interview job applicants and their responses to questions. If I got the feeling that they were more concerned about how hard it would be to learn and work, then I would usually pass on them. The few times that I compromised and hired them, it never worked out. They would usually work to the point that was necessary but never go the extra mile. They were driven by the money, not the profession.

To be a pro and make a living, means hard work, BUT with that hard work brings a lot of satisfaction and self worth.

Good luck,

JM

Many years ago a good friend of mine coined an expression about the very people you are talking about...he called them "malicious compliants" They were the ones that already had their feet in the starting blocks at two minutes to five every day..and gone at the dot of five.

[JerBear]

Originally Posted by auto-focus

Many years ago a good friend of mine coined an expression about the very people you are talking about...he called them "malicious compliants" They were the ones that already had their feet in the starting blocks at two minutes to five every day..and gone at the dot of five.

That is one of the problems with society today. Take a look at what the labor unions have done to stifle business.

JM

[autofocus]

Originally Posted by JerBear

That is one of the problems with society today. Take a look at what the labor unions have done to stifle business.

JM

Don't get me started on that subject!! This is probably the wrong venue to continue that dialog, but suffice it to say we're in lockstep