A Living With Photography

[sk66]

Originally Posted by Jim Poor

This is the only part of your post I disagree with. The difference is that day care, and heating and cool are necessities where photography, in most cases, is a luxury.

Everything else you said applies doubly so because of that slight difference.

I think the point was that running a business, any business, is basically the same. Not that they are all identical, EVERY business is different. Even two similar photography businesses will be different in the details...

[sk66]

My 2c:
It was hard back in the 80's, it's harder now. Too much competition and too little appreciation for what it takes.

[autofocus]

Originally Posted by Jim Bryant

Very hard, unless you know what the hell you are doing. Got to take professional pictures, have the correct camera and lighting equipment, professional looking website with examples of a variety of portraits (not just those only of one or two kids), and really, really need to have a knowledge of photography business and what to charge for you services.

It's not one of these professions where you get a DSLR and two months later want to start making money. You have to know your equipment inside and out, what the various S-stops and shutter speeds can do for you.

Takes years of training and experience to become successful in this business.

Jim is 100% right. If you really want to make a go of it I'd say start small, and don't quit your day job. Maybe an occasional weekend job as you learn the ropes. Make sure you have all the right equipment to support whatever type of photography you want to get in to. For simple outdoor shooting you can probably get away with one body, a few good lenses, a decent flash, a reflector, and someone to hold the reflector should you not buy a stand. On the other hand, If you plan on doing weddings and events, at a minimum, you'd better have a second camera body, (you only get one shot to do it, and you can always count on something failing at the most inopportune time) some good fast glass, more and better lighting, and be well prepared to be spending a fair amount time sitting behind a computer doing post processing

[navcom]

Originally Posted by sk66

I think the point was that running a business, any business, is basically the same. Not that they are all identical, EVERY business is different. Even two similar photography businesses will be different in the details...

Exactly. Business is business. While every business is different, the basic principles of running a business are pretty much the same across the board.

Also, I luv ya Jim! But I have to disagree a bit. In reality, there aren't businesses of necessity and luxury. If you can make money doing it, it's a necessity...because someone thinks enough of your product or service to part with their money to get it. Even grocers have to be on top of their game. We all need food. Food is a necessary product. You would think it would be an easy market. It's not. Quite the opposite. Because it is a necessity, competition is fierce. And if there isn't competition now, there will be if you slack. Someone will see an opportunity to knock you off. Sometimes the necessary products are the toughest to succeed at because the market is already saturated and everyone assumes it's a sure win to start this type of business. Another reason that market research is so important and making undocumented assumptions about a particular market are like a bullet in the head to the new business owner.

Plumbing/HVAC are technically necessary services. But like the legion of ametuer photographers, I do my own plumbing and HVAC work at home. There are tools, products, and technologies that make it very easy to do it yourself now days. You can't change the channel on your TV without coming across a DIY show that shows you how to do just about anything. And besides, I enjoy it. A plumber or HVAC tech is not a necessity to me. Does that mean that it is a business to avoid getting into because it's so easy to do it yourself today? Hardly. There are those that simply don't know how, don't want to learn, don't want to get messy, or don't have the time so they call the pros. The exact same can be said for photography.

In these "necessity" markets, there are still businesses who fail every year while there are those that have been around forever. It comes back to how you run your business and stay on top of it...how well you know your market, how you plan, how organized you are, how you take advantage of your niches, how open you are to a changing market, etc.

[private]

Originally Posted by Jim Poor

This is the only part of your post I disagree with. The difference is that day care, and heating and cool are necessities where photography, in most cases, is a luxury.

Everything else you said applies doubly so because of that slight difference.

It depends on the type of photos you are taking. I had a mom yesterday say that she would rather go without than NOT have beautiful pics of her daughter. And I find that to be true with child portraiture. I am tempted to raise my prices - just for her...LOL - just joshing...

but you are right about everything else.

[tulsidas]

i think it is hard! and costly.
i am just starting out, and i have already invested $8000 and i really need more.
and shit!! photographer get so much heat on high prices!!! THERE IS A REASON!

whats getting me right now is that you do so much work to prepare photos and then they may not buy.

but if there is a will there is a way. and people do need the service.

[OrsonKent]

Honestly, the photography is the easiest part of earning a living from photography - especially if you have a history as an enthusiastic amateur.

It's the everything else that's hard to learn to do right - first, the promotion/marketing/building of a business from the ground up, the networking (even moreso, for someone who naturally trends towards the introverted end of the spectrum), the accounting/book keeping, the contact management, etc etc.

I could take/edit/process photographs every day for the rest of my life, if I'd make a living like that. Unfortunately, I wouldn't make enough to make ends meet.

[sk66]

Originally Posted by navcom

In reality, there aren't businesses of necessity and luxury. If you can make money doing it, it's a necessity...because someone thinks enough of your product or service to part with their money to get it. Even grocers have to be on top of their game. We all need food. Food is a necessary product. You would think it would be an easy market. It's not. Quite the opposite. Because it is a necessity, competition is fierce. And if there isn't competition now, there will be if you slack. Someone will see an opportunity to knock you off. Sometimes the necessary products are the toughest to succeed at because the market is already saturated and everyone assumes it's a sure win to start this type of business.

I'll agree and disagree. There are necessities, and luxuries, and it does make a difference. Neither guarantees anything as you stated, it comes down to understanding your market. However, there will always be fewer providing luxury services (at luxury prices) than those providing necessities.

The one thing that makes this "luxury business" different than most other businesses (especially necessity businesses) is it is largely unregulated and unqualified. Other than getting your business license and collecting sales tax, no-one really cares "how" you run a photography business (regulation wise). There is no required education, certifications, bonding, registration, etc etc (qualification). This makes this particular field VERY competitive these days; even the equipment is not very cost prohibitive. Add to this a largely "uneducated" prospective client base and then "anyone" can be a photographer.

There is the aspect to photography of it being a "required necessity" (i.e. weddings, children etc) but those who see it as such and treat it as such (must have even though can't afford easily) generally are looking for the "most for the least" as is true of most when dealing with "necessity purchases". This is where the "anyone photographer" fits in, and also what makes the field additionally challenging. I must add however, there IS a place for the "anyone photographer" (well, an advanced anyone). If a customer gets a product that makes them happy at a price they can afford, then that's good enough....

When you get to the point of being able to work with customers who KNOW what they want, who are technical/critical/knowledgeable about photos/photography. Who demand top level performance/product, are willing to pay for it and will make YOU pay for not delivering, and you can make a (real) living at it, THEN you are a pro IMO...

I myself am an ex-pro-wannabe......

[navcom]

Originally Posted by sk66

The one thing that makes this "luxury business" different than most other businesses (especially necessity businesses) is it is largely unregulated and unqualified. Other than getting your business license and collecting sales tax, no-one really cares "how" you run a photography business (regulation wise). There is no required education, certifications, bonding, registration, etc etc (qualification). This makes this particular field VERY competitive these days; even the equipment is not very cost prohibitive. Add to this a largely "uneducated" prospective client base and then "anyone" can be a photographer.

I'll second that! I consider this a good thing. It means that opportunity is more available and not limited to a regulated "monopoly". Or...possibly not limited to some regulatory body's idea of what a photographer should be. The up-and-coming photog is free to decide that for themselves, come up with their business plan, and then test it on the marketplace. If the market likes it, you succeed. If they don't, you fail and try again.

As for an uneducated client base, on this I have a different perspective. Every market is "uneducated" as a whole. Not a single one of us knows everything about everything. We are human. Take any product...say automobiles. While it's true there is a huge number of folks who know a lot about cars, the market as a whole does not. The car enthusiast knows what he is looking for when he walks into a dealership but many folks haven't a clue about which car to buy. They buy based on look, on features, or on what they hear from others. This is true of just about every market. Just because the client base doesn't understand your product doesn't mean it's a different market than others. It means you must educate them just as every other market has to do.

One thing about photography is that in the end, it's really art. And art is subjective. One person's idea of garbage can become art to another person. This is a good thing. We certainly don't want to regulate what is art or what type of person makes an artist. It also means that opportunity is endless! It means the artist is free to express themselves. The photog is free to experiment with what works in the marketplace. Maybe even use technology to "redefine" what it means to be a photographer?

[sk66]

As far as "uneducated" goes, I think there is a difference. When you buy a car it has to be 100% right, or you're seriously unhappy...same with most any other product....buy meat from the grocer; it had better not be spoiled. As a minimum the basics have to be there.....IMO, "the basics" of a "professional photo" is not simply a capture of a scene....that's a snapshot.

But with a lot of photography it's more like "yup, it's a picture of me/us/it printed/presented nicely...good enough". If it's just an ok picture; of course they would be happier with a "better" picture, but they don't know what "could have been". And even if it is a truly great picture, they are not any "happier" to have recieved it for the same reasons.

Others "expect more" but can not convey "what" they want or "why" because they really just don't know. Those types of clients are generally unwilling to pay for "the more" because they have no concept of what "the more" is and what is required to deliver it.

None of this is either necessarily good or bad, but it does make things very difficult for an "aspiring pro/pro" to differentiate themselves from the masses and develop a "good" client base. By "good" I'm talking about clients who know what they want, why they want it, and are willing to pay for it.....those are the clients of a real pro IMO. (yes, there are many "levels" before that, but "real pro" is where the real money/reputation/esteem/demand is at)