$2500 for a wedding photograhper, plus more for the actual photos?

[Loose_Canon]

Originally Posted by xxpinballxx

... but you still should have your shots that you paid for at your disposal.....

That is the question - what did they pay for? All of these issues are covered in the contract. While we all sympathize with jprime84 and his family, the bride's parents made the deal and signed a contract. So, a deal is a deal. Regardless of our feelings after the fact, Whatever they agreed is the deal, no more - no less.

It sounds like the photog did not do a very good job and her people skills are suspect. I imagine the family's only recourse is to complain on the basis of coverage and quality or other issues which were covered in the contract. To simply say, "We want a CD of all photos at no charge" carries no weight at all. Perhaps the family can bring up some issues and the photog will offer something, like a photo CD. We will see...

[SJH Foto]

You're too right about the contract! When I make one up, I go over the wording and explain it word for word with a fine tooth comb. Most of my headaches come from when people try to get their retainer back (I had 2 couples break up and try to get their money back-alas, I have to be firm)

[imagesbyjk]

So lets do some quick math here. Lets just add up the time involved for the photographer. And I'll be conservative.

Scout the location (a good photographer will - includes travel time to location) - 2 hrs

Prep equipment (clean lenses, charge and/or install new batteries, etc.) - 1hr

Load equipment and get to location - 1hr

Shoot wedding - 5hrs

Tear down, load equipment, and go home - 1hr

Upload and edit 1000 images (conservative) - 2hrs

Process and sort images - 4 hrs

Artwork on 600 images (lets just use an average of 5mins per image to keep nice round numbers) - 50 hrs

Create a slideshow - 4hrs

Burn backups - 2hrs

Upload images online for viewing or printing a proof book - 1hr

Collect orders and retouch images (retouching is time consuming so lets say there are just 50 different images @ 12 minutes each) - 10 hrs

Sending to the lab - 1hr

Receiving prints and packaging for clients (could be assembling albums which takes a while but we'll just figure basic packaging) - 2 hrs

Delivering and/or shipping prints - 1 hr

Cost of a proof book (600 images - 100 pages w/6 images per page) - $300

That alone is a total of 87 hrs (conservatively) for one wedding. Divide that into $2200 ($2500-$300) and you get a little over $25/hr. Not a bad wage. But wait, I've probably left stuff out and I was conservative in my numbers. Photographers also spend a large amount of time marketing which we don't get directly paid for. We spend a lot of time on education which is not only time we invest but often times money. Then there are capital expenses like equipment. We often pay assistants. We buy insurance. The list goes on. Suddenly that $25/hr isn't looking so healthy. Then we have to deal with clients who think we should give them their images for free - eliminating our ability to generate more income.

[thenimirra]

Originally Posted by imagesbyjk

So lets do some quick math here. Lets just add up the time involved for the photographer. And I'll be conservative.

Scout the location (a good photographer will - includes travel time to location) - 2 hrs

Prep equipment (clean lenses, charge and/or install new batteries, etc.) - 1hr

Load equipment and get to location - 1hr

Shoot wedding - 5hrs

Tear down, load equipment, and go home - 1hr

Upload and edit 1000 images (conservative) - 2hrs

Process and sort images - 4 hrs

Artwork on 600 images (lets just use an average of 5mins per image to keep nice round numbers) - 50 hrs

Create a slideshow - 4hrs

Burn backups - 2hrs

Upload images online for viewing or printing a proof book - 1hr

Collect orders and retouch images (retouching is time consuming so lets say there are just 50 different images @ 12 minutes each) - 10 hrs

Sending to the lab - 1hr

Receiving prints and packaging for clients (could be assembling albums which takes a while but we'll just figure basic packaging) - 2 hrs

Delivering and/or shipping prints - 1 hr

Cost of a proof book (600 images - 100 pages w/6 images per page) - $300

That alone is a total of 87 hrs (conservatively) for one wedding. Divide that into $2200 ($2500-$300) and you get a little over $25/hr. Not a bad wage. But wait, I've probably left stuff out and I was conservative in my numbers. Photographers also spend a large amount of time marketing which we don't get directly paid for. We spend a lot of time on education which is not only time we invest but often times money. Then there are capital expenses like equipment. We often pay assistants. We buy insurance. The list goes on. Suddenly that $25/hr isn't looking so healthy. Then we have to deal with clients who think we should give them their images for free - eliminating our ability to generate more income.

here here! As someone who just finished a wedding with two other photographers as assistants, 3,000 photos taken of the wedding, the reception, bride/groom portraits, bridal portraits in my studio and shots taken at both the bride and groom's house before the wedding...

it is a tremendous amount of work and I still had to pay my assistants out of that $500....I may never do another wedding again.

[RexK_Cozumel]

yeah $500 is WAY WAY WAY too little to shoot a wedding.... With 2 assistants too.. :-( By the time you finish paying them and gas you $500 is gone. Not to mention all the actual work.

[KathrynWilson]

Completely agreed. Everyone complains about the cost of wedding photography but just like everything else related to weddings - they charge more because they absolutely can't afford to get it wrong - and because they know that people will pay more to have what they want on their big day. And as mentioned above, a LOT of time goes into it. It would take me at least 2 whole days to edit a wedding, more to do the album and slideshow work. It also pays to consider that it's a supply and demand thing - that's how much they charge because that's what the market will take.

[thenimirra]

Originally Posted by RexK_Cozumel

yeah $500 is WAY WAY WAY too little to shoot a wedding.... With 2 assistants too.. :-( By the time you finish paying them and gas you $500 is gone. Not to mention all the actual work.

I know...it was my first one too, so I didn't feel comfortable charging anymore. But I fully expected to make some money from print sales...but no dice. Someone else has said to get all the money up front...and that's why $2500 is reasonable (and I would include the CD as well).

[jprime84]

The issue isnt about the cost of $2500. It is about customer service/quality, and possibly a poorly communicated contract. I wont know details until this weekend, but from what I have heard, her parents did not realize they would need to pay more later for the photos. This could simply be because they didnt take the time to understand the deal, or it could be because the deal was not properly communicated to them. It sounds like in this community it is common knowledge that the actual pictures cost extra, but to many people who have never hired a photog before this could be a surprise.

The point is ,for other working photographers on here; a happy client will need to know all of the details before any money is paid.

[imagesbyjk]

Originally Posted by jprime84

The issue isnt about the cost of $2500. It is about customer service/quality, and possibly a poorly communicated contract. I wont know details until this weekend, but from what I have heard, her parents did not realize they would need to pay more later for the photos. This could simply be because they didnt take the time to understand the deal, or it could be because the deal was not properly communicated to them. It sounds like in this community it is common knowledge that the actual pictures cost extra, but to many people who have never hired a photog before this could be a surprise.

The point is ,for other working photographers on here; a happy client will need to know all of the details before any money is paid.

That's very true. But having done my fair share of weddings I've found that sometimes regardless of how well you think you've explained something there is some sort of transformation that takes place during a wedding. Seemingly rational, intelligent, and friendly folk turn into just the opposite. I don't know if its the excitement that clouds their minds. Or just the unfamiliarity with the whole process. I think they often hear what they want to hear or what they have preconceived the process to be. I'm not saying the photographer bears no responsibility. I think we all need to remember that the general public has no idea what goes into shooting a wedding and they typically are new to the whole process so, even though we do it all the time, we need to remember that and explain it each time like its the first time - because it is for many.

[Loose_Canon]

One problem with hoping for sales after the wedding, particularly from the bride's family, is that most families overspend on weddings. And costs come up along the way that puts them over their budget. So there is little or nothing left after the wedding.

That's why I always sold a package up front - paid in full by 2 weeks before the wedding. That way their check is cleared and we are all set - no tension waiting and wondering about sales later. It's already sold & paid in full. Families actually like that also - no surprises later. Any additional print sales is pure gravy.