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  1. #21
    veritasimagery is offline I'm one of "those" people
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    Quote Originally Posted by autofocus View Post
    Kevin, exactly what is the extra stuff that they make you buy? Is the extra stuff you are talking about optional..like an extended warranty, or a faster processor, or a better monitor? The last time I bought a system from HP or Dell any of the offered extras were optional, and you still could get the basic system that you wanted. The only companies that I know that bundle in more of the junk you don't want, but make you pay for it are the cable companies...oh, you want the History Channel?..you have to take the damn cartoon and Disney channels with it
    Things like Microsquish Office (already had), PocketCloud Companion, and McAfee security (didn't need, use Avast). Also, the closest Dell laptop to mine costs $500 to start (no monitor and only one dvd drive). To bring it up to mine it hits closer to $800. Mine, all told, was right at $600. I already had a copy of Windows 7, at discount because my wife was in school at the time. I also was able to add the extra hard drive space by just adding my old drive to the new one. It helps when your son is an IT person. Also, remember that, though companies like Dell can mass purchase parts, they also have to pay workers to assemble them. I didn't.
    Kevin
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  2. #22
    autofocus's Avatar
    autofocus is online now I'm old here...
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    McAfee security
    I'm assuming this was one of those 90 day freebies that needs to be renewed and bought at the end of the trial period. You probably didn't pay for this at purchase time with the assumption it would be purchased after the trial period. BTW, I use Avast also..a very good anti virus program

    Also, the closest Dell laptop to mine costs $500 to start (no monitor and only one dvd drive).
    no monitor?..I'm confused, did you mean to say desktop?

    It helps when your son is an IT person
    . Always nice to have at least one friend or family member who would be considered a certified "geek"
    Also, remember that, though companies like Dell can mass purchase parts, they also have to pay workers to assemble them. I didn't
    Well, the individual sub-assembly components you buy are also assembled by workers who get paid, not to mention the value of your time and labor
    Vince "...the law of unintended consequences, sometimes, you get a truly memorable photograph"
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  3. #23
    veritasimagery is offline I'm one of "those" people
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    Quote Originally Posted by autofocus View Post
    no monitor?..I'm confused, did you mean to say desktop?

    . Always nice to have at least one friend or family member who would be considered a certified "geek"

    Well, the individual sub-assembly components you buy are also assembled by workers who get paid, not to mention the value of your time and labor
    Yeah, meant desktop. Oops.

    My son has been self taught on all the stuff he does and it blows me away what he can. He wrote his own timer program when he was in 6th grade. I think at last count he had four computers in his room (just the ones that work). He has one that is the media server for the whole house, one that is the firewall, and the other two are just for himself. I came home a month ago, or so, and went in to see what he was doing and he had resurrected an old Apple IIe that he was given and had it talking to his laptop. He went to college just to have the certification and is now the main IT guy for the local college sub-campus.

    As far as time and labor on the assembly it was all of a half hour at most.
    Kevin
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  4. #24
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    kirbinster is offline Always carry your camera
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    The problem with all the free trial crap they throw on the machine is it screws up performance. MS now offers a service at their retail stores where for $75 they will clean up your new system and install a clean copy of windows. So, if you really want a good retail system you actually have to pay another $75 to have it be the equivalent of clean out of the box.

    Yes the big boys can buy components cheaper, how much is open for debate. But what do you think all the TV ads and print ads cost them and how do you think they pay for them -- by not passing those savings on to you.

    Further those Dell and HP machines often times have proprietary multifunction boards. If you want to change something you end up with a mess as you have to change two or three components. They do stupid stuff like having a video card that also controls networking and the mouse. If you want a machine for anything but basic internet and word processing you are much better off building it to your own specs.
    Nikon D800e, D300, D5000, NIKON GLASS 85mm F/1.8 D, 105mm f/2.8 Micro AF-S VR, 70-200 AF-S VR f/2.8, 28-300 AF-S VRII,10.5mm Fisheye, 24-70 AF-S f/2.8, TC-20E III AF-S, Sigma 12-24 HSM, Sigma 30mm f/1.4 HSM, Sigma 150-500 OS, 2 SB-600 Speedlights, SB-900 speedlight, 4 YN-622N transceivers, Manfrotto 190MF3 tripod & 322RC2 ball grip head. - NJ, USA
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  5. #25
    autofocus's Avatar
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    But what do you think all the TV ads and print ads cost them and how do you think they pay for them -- by not passing those savings on to you.
    C'mon Howard, you of all people should know that companies are in business for one, and only one reason, and that is to make a profit for their owners or the stock holders. And those volumes they buy can actually influence the price you pay for one of those same components bought for your system. So, indirectly, you also benefit by the mass production volume being enjoyed by that component manufacturer, and that is then passed onto you.


    Further those Dell and HP machines often times have proprietary multifunction boards. If you want to change something you end up with a mess as you have to change two or three components. They do stupid stuff like having a video card that also controls networking and the mouse
    . I agree, highly integrated boards can be a problem. One element of the board fails and the whole board needs to be replaced. A lot easier when you have to replace a proprietary function board for $25 bucks instead of a motherboard
    Vince "...the law of unintended consequences, sometimes, you get a truly memorable photograph"
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  6. #26
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    kirbinster is offline Always carry your camera
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    I agree that we all benefit from components being made in high volume. I just know from experience I can build a better system for less money than one I can buy from the big computer outfits.
    Nikon D800e, D300, D5000, NIKON GLASS 85mm F/1.8 D, 105mm f/2.8 Micro AF-S VR, 70-200 AF-S VR f/2.8, 28-300 AF-S VRII,10.5mm Fisheye, 24-70 AF-S f/2.8, TC-20E III AF-S, Sigma 12-24 HSM, Sigma 30mm f/1.4 HSM, Sigma 150-500 OS, 2 SB-600 Speedlights, SB-900 speedlight, 4 YN-622N transceivers, Manfrotto 190MF3 tripod & 322RC2 ball grip head. - NJ, USA
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  7. #27
    autofocus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirbinster View Post
    I agree that we all benefit from components being made in high volume. I just know from experience I can build a better system for less money than one I can buy from the big computer outfits.
    I agree Howard, from the sound of that tower you built, you've definitely proven that. I think what's even the same, or more important is that you get a system exactly the way YOU want it. I have a friend who was an FAE (field applications engineer) for a company we both worked at, and he had a side business of making and selling PC's. (before I retired, I had spent 40 years in the electronic component industry, and also enjoyed ten years in sales with Intel) When it was time for me to upgrade to a new PC, I turned to my friend to custom build my new one, so I can understand the value of a custom built PC
    Vince "...the law of unintended consequences, sometimes, you get a truly memorable photograph"
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  8. #28
    DannyOO is offline Howdy!
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    Back to the original topic...

    I like the logo. It looks really nice and neat-o. Good job!

    I've also noticed that CD/DVD drives appear to be fading away for regular consumer-grade computer equipment.

    Until the day comes that nothing comes with a CD/DVD drive I'd offer customers a choice of the USB drive or a disk.

    The really neat thing with the USB drive is that so many people have those electronic picture frames that they could just plug this right into so they could have a continually changing picture frame as it cycles through all the photos on the drive.

    Danny
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  9. #29
    UlpilotSC's Avatar
    UlpilotSC is offline Insert title here
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    Quote Originally Posted by autofocus View Post
    I don't image you can save any money by doing that when you consider what the cost of the separate components are that has to go into the build of a PC, as in:
    a chassis/enclosure, a mother board with processor(s) fans, I/O boards, graphics board, drives and drive controller board, memory, operating system, power supply, keyboard, etc. Is this more of a hobby for you, or do you really want a custom system that might be hard to duplicate from an off the shelf supplier?
    And I know that you get a highly integrated mother board that has much of those control functions bundled in, but if any of those functions fail you're most probably faced with chucking the mother board for a replacement.
    Its not about saving money... It's about getting exactly what you want and not settling for less. It used to be about saving money, I built my first pc in 1994. Back then you had to hand set com port and interrupt controls with micro switches on each card (sound, game controller, video...), and chose switch settings for processor and memory speed and voltage. Now you just plug stuff in.

    Sure, anyone Can go buy a $400 pc (or a $4000 pc)... But if you truly want to understand it and feel proud of it, you have to build it. There's nothing like pushing that switch the first time and seeing the motherboard logo pop up, and seeing a successful POST test (no scary series of beeps). You choose the exact set of components you want, pick out the case, wire it up...and you don't spend forty minutes uninstalling all the BS Shovelware that PC companies love to dump on your new hard drive.

    I can never understand those people who only want to buy off the shelf PCs or worse, laptops. Where's the fun in that? My wife wants an iMac, and I'm going to get her one for anniversary, but I've got my list in my head, and I'm going to rebuild my pc. Besides, I've got all my custom stuff in my PC. Where can you buy a PC with a custom USB-To-Serial XM cable? My PC will record my XM radio songs right to MP3's... I don't feel bad drilling holes in my front panels for custom lights and switches.

    I love building PCs. They're just expensive.
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  10. #30
    rspears's Avatar
    rspears is offline The Wedding Guy
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyOO View Post
    Back to the original topic...

    I like the logo. It looks really nice and neat-o. Good job!

    Danny
    Thank you Danny!!
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