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  1. #21
    Tzetsin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhursey View Post
    I pray for over cast weddings its like a magical massive softbox. Although it does give a grayish blue tint but shoot raw.
    This I've yet to master. gloomy days rob me of all that splendid color. i loooooooove color. high saturation contrasty beautiful color... overcast is my nemesis. I'll make do though.

    Raw? of course I will shoot raw. Is there another way to shoot??

    Quote Originally Posted by Menomenom View Post
    Alberta isn't too far from Washington...maybe Jim Bryant can come and show you how it's done? Just think what your cousin would say if you told her you were getting a Pultizer Prize Applicant to shoot her wedding.
    Actually.... His prices are pretty reasonable. Btw, you have to be nominated for the Pulitzer Prize, you don't get to apply.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menomenom View Post
    I'm completely serious. You should hire him and shoot together, and then post your experience and some photos here.

    As for the Pulitzer, this was discussed in another thread that was deleted by a mod. Anyone can apply for a Pulitzer. Anyone. A panel of judges then reviews the applications and picks three "nominees", one of which wins the official prize.
    Pfft, I can't watch and steal all his secrets if I have my eye in my own camera ;D If I hire anyone I'm simply going to enjoy the wedding and let them do all the work.

    I didn't know that about the Pulitzer. Still, since anyone can apply I'd imagine there are a lot of candidates. To be nominated is still something to be proud of.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menomenom View Post
    This a family forum. Please keep the conversation civilized and free of profanity.

    I'm sure if I had said the same, I'd be banned from this forum. How many posts do I need before I can talk like that?
    Is it just me or does it seem like your purposely provoked Jim on this. Your description under your name even further proves this. "Future Pulitzer Nominee".

    What you said was totally not needed on this thread. I highly respect Jim and his opinions and so does the majority of the forum. If he was nominated for a prize great! I have seen Jims work and I can see why he was nominated. However that is not what this thread is about. This thread is about a established DPS forum member who does non wedding photography and does great at it trying his hand at wedding photography. I just see your initial and subsequent posts as an unneeded aspect of this conversation.
    Last edited by bhursey; 07-03-2012 at 08:50 PM.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bryant View Post
    Well, PM me then, so we can sort out our problems!
    Is this Newb really worth the effort?
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    And back to the topic at hand.... Tzetsin, I understand not wanting the pressure of being the person expected to deliver professionally captured memories all by yourself and would definitely decline if I was in your shoes (although I am no where near as good as you)... But this is a difficult dilemma, as I would jump at the opportunity to have a go ahead to be in the action clicking away at such a beautiful event. However, I would also be firmly clear that I am not and will not guarantee professional quality results. If the bride (your cousin) wants to be certain her memories are properly captured then she needs to invest in someone with the experience needed to properly capture them.

    $2k in booze? That's quite the investment in something that won't last very long... Everyone has different priorities though I suppose. If she's not happy with her recorded memories after the big day, she'll only have herself to blame, so feel free to remove yourself from the need to feel any guilt/pressure over it. Based on her decisions thus far she has clearly decided that this is not a priority.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by KitKat70 View Post
    $2k in booze? That's quite the investment in something that won't last very long... Everyone has different priorities though I suppose. If she's not happy with her recorded memories after the big day, she'll only have herself to blame, so feel free to remove yourself from the need to feel any guilt/pressure over it. Based on her decisions thus far she has clearly decided that this is not a priority.
    You see, thats just it. You know, and I know, and everyone here knows how important images of important events are, for years down the road, but these other people... those people that don't put any value in doing something that hurts a little today to benefit themselves tomorrow are like people snorting cocain for the first time. They think its ok today, but down the road they're screwed... And I'm like a concerned parent that knows where the road ends trying to get their kid to stop... no amount of talking is going to change their mind. But in this I have more power than a concerned parent. In this I can affect the outcome. At personal cost, but its the price we pay for bonds.

    There are only two things I can think of in a traditional wedding that you don't need to make the event happen. Booze, and the photographer. One to help the festivities that night, one to remember the festivities in the morning. I don't know why people always choose booze.

    I guess its circular lol, if you drink all night, you need pics to remember, if you dont drink, you dont need pics..... lol (joke)

  6. #26
    Menomenom is offline Future Pulitzer Nominee
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzetsin View Post
    Please don't use my thread to further your vendetta. Thankee kindly.
    Fine, let me give you some advice.

    You, like many on this forum, are trying to tell the client what they want instead of listening to what they want. I know, it's a strange concept...giving the customer what they want. Photos are very important to us, but not everyone feels the same way.

    If your cousin wants you to shoot the wedding, she's telling you "I don't care about photos that much...adequate photos will do." You're telling her "No, you must have the best!".

    Looking through your photos, it's obvious that your post-processing skills are very good, but I don't see much in the way of artificial lighting. Knowing how to bounce flash is essential for good indoor photos, and is quite easy to learn. Your nifty-fifty is a fine lens, and will do a fine job with candids and other indoor shots, but you may need something wider for the formals. If you can rent a 70-200 f2.8 IS II for the ceremony, that would be good as well. A full-frame camera would be nice, but your 60D should do just fine.

    If you can do that, you'll be more than adequate, which is all your cousin is asking for. Also remember that a wedding can last 8+ hours (the last one I shot was 12), and even a bad photographer can get a handful of good shots in that time.
    Last edited by Menomenom; 07-04-2012 at 01:34 AM.

  7. #27
    Mark Engelhart's Avatar
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    I noticed that you have until November 17th to work out scenerios you will run into. That's plenty of time to work out in your head what you will need to learn to be reasonably comfortable on the wedding day. Think of it as a project and work through the project step by step.

    Here are a few things to remember.
    1- Flat lighting (on camera flash) although not the most dramatic lighting is the safest to assure you get a usable results. Get the safe shots and then experiment.
    2- Carry a cheat sheet/ itinerary of shots you need to get. Segment the day and make lists on seperate pages for each segment. That way you don't have to memorize all the shots.
    3- Study other photographers for ideas on posing. Such as when getting shots of the rings, the detail shots, etc.
    4- Find a local wedding photographer and see if you can go on a few weddings with him prior to the date or just crash a few weddings without your gear and observe what the photographer does. Use a decerning eye though because it might be his first wedding as well.LOL This will give a feel for the flow and speed of the day.

    You've got lots of time to concentrate on what you will need to learn to do an acceptable job and the talent and ability your images already show will make alot of it more than adequate.

    Also, get friends to stand in and practice shots that you are not comfortable with until you are. You know that if you post stuff in the critic section here explaining what you are doing you will get plenty of helpful suggestions. Also feel free to PM me with any questions and I'll be happy to work it out with you.

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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Menomenom View Post
    Fine, let me give you some advice.

    You, like many on this forum, are trying to tell the client what they want instead of listening to what they want. I know, it's a strange concept...giving the customer what they want. Photos are very important to us, but not everyone feels the same way.

    If your cousin wants you to shoot the wedding, she's telling you "I don't care about photos that much...adequate photos will do." You're telling her "No, you must have the best!".

    Looking through your photos, it's obvious that your post-processing skills are very good, but I don't see much in the way of artificial lighting. Knowing how to bounce flash is essential for good indoor photos, and is quite easy to learn. Your nifty-fifty is a fine lens, and will do a fine job with candids and other indoor shots, but you may need something wider for the formals. If you can rent a 70-200 f2.8 IS II for the ceremony, that would be good as well. A full-frame camera would be nice, but your 60D should do just fine.

    If you can do that, you'll be more than adequate, which is all your cousin is asking for. Also remember that a wedding can last 8+ hours (the last one I shot was 12), and even a bad photographer can get a handful of good shots in that time.

    While I agree with this post, I see a problem. Call it "ego" or whatever, but as a "photographer" there is a "standard" which is self imposed. Having an opinion on what "good" photography is (and it *is* just opinion) that becomes the minimum standard regardless of what the "customer" wants.

    If I can deliver that standard great, if not I will feel a failure. It's not just about "what the client wants", not if you are "an artist". It is if you are "a businessman/salesman." (person)

    And yes, that's why "artists" starve a lot of the time.....


    BTW, I think this is the first post I've seen from you which had some sense of helpfulness/support, wasn't primarily antagonistic, and didn't make me think you were a 20 yr. old who "knows everything" and just want's to stir up s4!t. Keep it up and you might become a valued/respected member here.
    Last edited by sk66; 07-04-2012 at 02:48 AM.

  9. #29
    ccting is offline Banned
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    hi Tzetsin,

    I have total different thoughts from others.

    a) First, you need to know why your cuz asking for your help. Understanding her requirements and constraints (especially financial) is more important than listening to "NO!" ..

    b) Is the money matters for her? If she really unwilling to pay for photographers, then I think you really need to do your best to help her out, rather hesitating. Do plan, practice shots with her in her house. You know her much well than other photographers, and you should able to access her house easily before the wedding day. You know her house lighting conditions much well than others. And she will be more relax with you compared to stranger photographers.

    c) Trust yourself. Try your best.

    Go ahead and do it. And i trust you will do the job. Stop hesitating, and help her out. She just want memories, and it is always better than none. Start working hard for preparation and stop hesitating. Trust yourself. Use whatever equipment you have and just do it. Usually wedding shots are very rush, so do a few rehearsals.

    Just visit her house, identify where she should do the makeup. It is always better to find place with large window where the lights are diffuse during the time you want to capture the shots. Look at the ceiling and walls, the color, and tone. If you are going to use artificial lighting, those color and tone really impact your shots. To make things easier, perhaps, repaint the ceiling or walls or adding the existing lights and whatever you could do to improve the shots.

    d) Will your refusal bring unhappiness to her? Think about that. Perhaps there will be no photographers at all, which makes her regret for whole life. So, just take your camera and shot. Why are you wasting so much time learning about photography while you cannot trust yourself and help her out

    e) if you feel uncomfortable of shooting her, then the solution is pretty simple. Do a few times rehearsals then you will used to capture her, and they will be more relaxed. Remember you are not shooting strangers but someone you know well.


    Try your best, and I trust you can do great job. Starting capturing photos in your list, and post the critique section, and I am sure many experts will help you out.
    Last edited by ccting; 07-04-2012 at 03:42 AM.

  10. #30
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    Roshenk is online now "f/2.8 and be there"
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccting View Post
    .

    Look at the ceiling and walls, the color, and tone. If you are going to use artificial lighting, those color and tone really impact your shots. To make things easier, perhaps, repaint the ceiling or walls....
    God....at the beginning he was actually being lucid. I knew it couldn't last.
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