Food Photography - Deli Menu revamp

[superduperwesman]

So I was up late last night, kinda bored, cruising the internet and came across a kijiji ad:

Looking for an experienced Photographer to take pics of my deli's new menu items.
Please send me rate info and sample pics with request to learn more about the project.
Thanks

Thought I'd reply (below). Now just curious on some others feedback before I reply further. Typically I think everyone on this forum has some things to say for situations like this, so lets hear your take/opinions/thoughts/suggestions. Also looking for food / menu specific comments

Before everyone hates me:
- if I do decide to go for the work I'll be presenting a fair price (even though I know they mentioned "low pricing"). I know my time is valuable. Still interested in suggestions but I know it varies from place to place, need to understand costs of doing business, etc.
- I am incorporated, will be charging / paying taxes, etc... but now that I think about it, I don't think I have commercial general liability insurance right now (returned to being an employee, still incorporated but cancelled a few things seeing I haven't been consulting for a bit)
- I have multiple bodies, flashes, strobes and lens (not that I'd want to use the d50, d800 wont arrive in time so I'll also borrow my buddies d300)
- If this turns into a roast I can take it

Here's my reply:

I'm an amateur photographer.

While not necessarily an "experienced photographer" I have done a fair amount of food photography.

Please take a look at a summary of my food work here:
Food - a set on Flickr

If you feel that my product, and my style are suited for your menu, please let me let me know more about the project. Below are some of the items we'll need to discuss:
- number of menu items to be photographed
- food type
- menu type (on table, over head light board, both)
- timeline
- desired image format
- pricing
- location
- etc.

I'm an amateur photographer but our dealings would still include a contract including terms of use for the photos.

If your interested in seeing more of my non food related photography take a look here:
Flickr: superduperwesman's Photostream

Please let me know either way.

Thanks,
Wesley Armson

And the response:

Wesley:

For an amateur photog I find you work to be of very good quality!

So...here's some information about our project:

Food type - Casual diner menu foods like Sandwiches, Poutines, Comfort Entrees...

Menu type - We currrently have a large backlit menu board, and have recently installed a 42" digital screen for marketing purposes

Timeline - I'd like to start within the next week to two weeks

Image format - digital high resolution

Pricing - a balance of high quality images / service and low pricing is ideal

Location - likely at our Deli [...]

Once we find the right photographer and terms of the project are clarified, we'd like to make arrangements for 8 to 12 images to be incorporated into a media presentation (by our Media Designer) featured on our digital signage system to test the popularity of the products. If the response is positive, we would then move on to re-doing our large backlit menu board as well as doing some printed signage and / or other printed marketing products.

Does this project sound of interest?

Kind regards,

[superduperwesman]

Was hoping to hear some input before replying but decided to reply tonight anyway:

The project does sound of interest to me.

Based on the info you’ve provided here’s a general idea of what I’d suggest (the contract would outline in more detail):

1. We do a two (2) hour shoot at your deli for a fee of $X. I will bring all the photography equipment I need to produce the photos (camera, backup camera, strobes, white backdrop, laptop for initial screening)

2. Typically within two weeks of the photo shoot date I’ll retouch the images and provided watermarked proofs for your review.

3. From the proofs you would select the images that you’d like to purchase.

4. For the usage you’ve outlined I’d charge $X/image and grant you rights, in perpetuity, to use the images for corporate advertising.


Provided this works for you, there is a few other things that should be considered / discussed:
1. Please note that I can assist with the food styling during the shoot but I am an amateur photographer and NOT a food stylist. Who did you intend to do the styling?

2. It’s likely best to stage the food on glass dinnerware even if the food may not be served as such. I have a couple dinnerware options that I can bring, but please know that you’ll be stuck choosing between the options I have available and what you have available.

3. I’ve made some assumptions regarding the time required to prepare the food. Ideally, a majority of items should be plated (and potentially cooked) immediately prior to being photographed. Will two (2) hours be sufficient to plate and possibly cook 8-12 menu items?

4. If possible I’d like a list of all of the menu items that are to be photographed.

5. Monday the 20th is family day so either the 21st or 22nd after 5pm would work best for me based on my current calendar availability.


Hopefully that’s all clear and something that works for you. If so, I’ll prepare a contract and we can meet to sign and discuss things further.

Again, please let me know either way.

Thanks

[OsmosisStudios]

I think you're outlining things a bit too much, with too much details, but if things are going well, then congrats.

[graciousness]

I didn't leave a reply to this earlier when I read it because I didn't know how to reply, given that I have no experience with food pornography I mean photography and the whole business of it. I want to, you know, shoot sexy food and sell the photos but well, we can't be everything.

I do think you handled this professionally with such a reply. I hope you get paid well and nothing goes wrong. You can do this - just hope you will be well prepared and do have sexy food to shoot.

I do think it will be harder than what is suggested. But with the right glisten and exposure, you can make the food look delicious.

In all honesty, though, I wouldn't shoot the food with see-through glass plates and would use what they serve their food on. People need to see the reality of what they will get without the fancy presentation. I would personally 'make it real', shoot with however they serve it, just compose and frame the shots well and you can still make it sexy.

Good luck and let us know how you go!

[superduperwesman]

Originally Posted by OsmosisStudios

I think you're outlining things a bit too much, with too much details, but if things are going well, then congrats.

Hammered this out quickly.. hopefully it all makes sense..

Yeah I always find it difficult to chisel down my comments because in my mind they all seem to have founding:

What you thinking of specifically?

Not saying that I go about things in the best way but I'll try to walk through my thought process:

First email:

I'm an amateur photographer. - I am not what you specifically asked for and I don't want to mislead you. If this is a problem for you it's a problem so stop now

While not necessarily an "experienced photographer" I have done a fair amount of food photography.- even though I'm not what you think you need maybe I can accomplish what you want

Please take a look at a summary of my food work here:
Food - a set on Flickr - you tell me

If you feel that my product, and my style are suited for your menu, please let me let me know more about the project. - my friends and family say I the most greatest photographer in the world but right now all that matters is you opinion. Understand that I can probably help you... might be already if you haven't thought of the following. Maybe you have but did others think of the following?

Below are some of the items we'll need to discuss:- I didn't technically give you what you asked of for ie: price but if I show you the variables maybe you'll see why. In my industry if you don't ask it in a bullet you don't typically get an answer or all answers
- number of menu items to be photographed- how much time are we talking?
- food type- have I done anything like this before. A polished turd is still a turd so is this something that can also help my portfolio or is it just going to be for you?
- menu type (on table, over head light board, both)- usage gives and indication of my products worth also does my camera have enough MP for the enormous print you may want to do?
- timeline- I have a full time job so will I be able to work this into my schedule
- desired image format Am I going to have to do prints? Do you want the RAW images because you heard you should get them?
- pricing - yes I will be charging you I just don't know how much yet
- location- how much gas and time do i need
- etc.- I might think of something else later and I want to pretend like I had planned to ask that all along but don't want to bore you right now with the full list

I'm an amateur photographer but our dealings would still include a contract including terms of use for the photos.- I would like to cover my butt. I also have some idea of what I'm doing and this is time that you don't necessarily see unless I tell you. Potentially sets me apart "This other guy is cheaper but has no contract / usage details... should that worry me?"

If your interested in seeing more of my non food related photography take a look here:
Flickr: superduperwesman's Photostream - All my friends and family say my photos are the bestest in the whole entire world so even though they're sorta unrelated to maybe they'll show you that I have some level of skill.

Please let me know either way. - I don't want to wonder for the new 3 days if you're just slow at replying to emails, if you're interested I'd like to know soonish. Because I asked you'll likely feel a little more need to reply and if you reply you'll probably feel the need to explain in which case I can get some real feedback not from my friends and family

Thanks,
Wesley Armson - this is my last name. yes the internet can be scary but I'm not scared of you so don't be scared of me - also included my phone number. I find most people prefer email these days but if you want to talk to me you can

Second email:

The project does sound of interest to me. You asked me a question so I'm going to answer it directly

Based on the info you’ve provided here’s a general idea of what I’d suggest (the contract would outline in more detail):- I have enough info to answer your original request so now I'm going to. I'm not entirely sure how emails hold up in court but if I do happen to mis speak I told you that the contract is our agreement and not this email. I use the word suggest because I am potentially willing to work with you. I also don't want to go into specifics on everything right now ($ for extra editing etc.) but want to remind you that there will be some additions to what you see here. you may not realize it now but I think it'll be less shocking given that I've eluded to this fact

1. We do a two (2) hour shoot at your deli for a fee of $X. I will bring all the photography equipment I need to produce the photos (camera, backup camera, strobes, white backdrop, laptop for initial screening) - I have things that cost money. Your friend with a slr does not have all of this stuff... so maybe he can't get the results I want? Again, in my industry some of our clients lose sight of what they're paying for. I think that's the same in photography. He's thinking photo (end deliverable) which is sorta right but but his dollars are paying for more than he realizes and I want to show him that. This is also why I shoot tethered. i think people value a preview. It's somewhat tangable. In addition my current food "portfolio" which is most snap shots from family b-days, and baby showers has some DOF issues so I think having the larger preview will help me address this better at the shoot which isn't something he needs to know but came to my mind

2. Typically within two weeks of the photo shoot date I’ll retouch the images and provided watermarked proofs for your review.I need some time but I don't want to leave you hanging. I use the word like typically to establish that I'm not completely new to this and because I know you probably want these asap because everyone does but because this is "normal" you'll be less likely to push for anything different. I am also doing PP on the photos which is where some of your money goes. You will not be stealing my images because they wont be usable unless you pay $ which I'm getting to

3. From the proofs you would select the images that you’d like to purchase.- you don't have to buy 8-12 but maybe you'll buy 20. That's really up to how I do which to be honest I really like because if he doesn't by any that's kind of my problem... potentially

4. For the usage you’ve outlined I’d charge $X/image and grant you rights, in perpetuity, to use the images for corporate advertising. - again I'm not completely new to this because I used some neat words (even though I'm not sure advertising was the best work choice?). And please don't be surprised if you see this photo in my portfolio because your getting specific usage



Provided this works for you, there is a few other things that should be considered / discussed: - now that I know who what company this is for I've googled you and I have some concerns that I should probably address now
1. Please note that I can assist with the food styling during the shoot but I am an amateur photographer and NOT a food stylist. Who did you intend to do the styling? - currently your menu photos are not very well styled and look difficult to style. I'll do the best that I can but this is not really part of what I've practiced, I will not have a torch and shoe polish

2. It’s likely best to stage the food on glass dinnerware even if the food may not be served as such. I have a couple dinnerware options that I can bring, but please know that you’ll be stuck choosing between the options I have available and what you have available. - I'm not too fond of you photos currently on paper plates. Maybe we could use some white glass plates instead and some real cutlery? Like I said a polished turd is still a turd. I mean I can work with it but I think the minor details could help the situation

3. I’ve made some assumptions regarding the time required to prepare the food. Ideally, a majority of items should be plated (and potentially cooked) immediately prior to being photographed. Will two (2) hours be sufficient to plate and possibly cook 8-12 menu items? - if I'm there for more than 2 hours I'm charging more. Also, I know I said I'm not the stylish but I'd like to be there when you put the food together for presentation because I think that i can offer some insight. Like lets put the peas on top of the gravy vs under the gravy for the photo (yes i said peas and gravy)

4. If possible I’d like a list of all of the menu items that are to be photographed.- if I know what you want me to shoot I can pre plan better and start to get ideas better formulated.

5. Monday the 20th is family day so either the 21st or 22nd after 5pm would work best for me based on my current calendar availability. - yes I have another job so it has to be after 5 so I better tell you now because weekends don't work for you


Hopefully that’s all clear and something that works for you. If so, I’ll prepare a contract and we can meet to sign and discuss things further. - more time

Again, please let me know either way. see above

Thanks

[superduperwesman]

Originally Posted by graciousness

I didn't leave a reply to this earlier when I read it because I didn't know how to reply, given that I have no experience with food pornography I mean photography and the whole business of it. I want to, you know, shoot sexy food and sell the photos but well, we can't be everything.

I do think you handled this professionally with such a reply. I hope you get paid well and nothing goes wrong. You can do this - just hope you will be well prepared and do have sexy food to shoot.

I do think it will be harder than what is suggested. But with the right glisten and exposure, you can make the food look delicious.

In all honesty, though, I wouldn't shoot the food with see-through glass plates and would use what they serve their food on. People need to see the reality of what they will get without the fancy presentation. I would personally 'make it real', shoot with however they serve it, just compose and frame the shots well and you can still make it sexy.

Good luck and let us know how you go!

Thanks or the reply.

Just think white glass plates would make things a touch nicer vs paper plates. Wasn't think clear glass.

[Biomech]

I like your email and pics, nothing else to say really :P

I wouldn't shoot the food with see-through glass plates and would use what they serve their food on. People need to see the reality of what they will get without the fancy presentation

oooohh, I don't agree. I'd use white plates or wooden plates. But I wouldn't photograph things as they actually appear - unless they do actually come out looking good :P Otherwise, you'd end up with a menu like something from a roadside spanish cafe :P

.. can't find a pic, but generally they are laminted cards with faded snap shots on :P

[superduperwesman]

Originally Posted by Biomech

I like your email and pics, nothing else to say really :P



oooohh, I don't agree. I'd use white plates or wooden plates. But I wouldn't photograph things as they actually appear - unless they do actually come out looking good :P Otherwise, you'd end up with a menu like something from a roadside spanish cafe :P

.. can't find a pic, but generally they are laminted cards with faded snap shots on :P

Thanks! That's nice to hear. I try to go about things in the best way I can but always worry that it's not actually turning out that way.

ahah yeah that's basically how the current pics are. Top down on paper plates.

I got a response to my original email within 12 hours and haven't heard back yet on my most recent and it's been over 24. To be honest I think that may be a good thing. He still wants to explore some options because he now realizes it's going to potentially cost him a bit but he doesn't want to say no because my pricing isn't outrageous for my current product? Or maybe not ahah time will tell I guess.

I'd be curious what others would charge if they care to share? I don't mind sharing but was hoping what some others thought first

[superduperwesman]

If anyone is interested here is some photos from their facebook page:










I feel like I will have my work cut out for me. This is also why I'm a little concerned about who is expected to do styling.

[Biomech]

I'm really hungry and those photos didn't help
I actually have some food in the cupboard that I can't eat until I photograph it - which I'm going to do now, because I'm starving!

Edit: that's on hold, my wireless triggers aren't working :/