Wedding Photography - Upgrade body delema

[bhursey]

Ok.. My main issue is major lack of funds and a almost 8 year old camera. The reason i am putting this in the earning forum is because the question is targeted tward those who make money from weddings and portrait shoots.

A little history. I started with a Canon Rebel XT. My mom at the time had a Canon 20D. Once I started really getting into professional Photography me and my mom switched cameras because of the better features and control's of the 20D. Wasn't that nice of her? The 20D has been a great work horse however it only has about a 50,000 shutter life on it and I am around hitting that number. I only really make enough money a year to cover the business expense, business license, web space, zenfoleo, flickr, gas, and so on. I just am not busy enough to be covering equipment costs. :/ I would say I averaged 10-15 portrait sessions a year and at mots 2 weddings. My business is mainly by word of mouth. I know it may frustrate some full time photographers that I am charging about middle range, the idea is a hobby and passion that pays for its self. I make and averaged with prints and fees off portrait sessions 150-300$ and 800-1000$ per wedding. My wedding prices are slowly creeping up. And I am throwing around the idea of switching to a digital business model because I have loss sales because of me selling only prints. But with print sales as my main money maker its all per person vs fees. I plan on keeping the 20D as a second body. Anyways enough with the history so you get my current position.

So right now im saving up for a new body I have been saving for about 4 months and have now gotten ~500$. I know sad. So I have a few options that I am mulling over in my brain. It is going to at lest take me around a year to save enough for the first or second option.

1. For 900-1k Get a 60D it has much better ISO performance than my 20D that is currently not usable for clients above 800ISO from the 6400ISO test raw files provided by DPreview.com in Aperture 3 800iso on the 20D = around 6400ISO on the 60d. Wait? is that a 3 stop improvement?!?! in noise? Equals around 6-9 months of saving. But the 60D has about a 50,000 less shutter life than the 5dMKII or the 7D.

2. For 1400$ Get a 7D About the same iso performance or a little better than the 60D. Heavier of a body more matching my 20d in feel and balance. New AF system, popup flash TTL master for my 580EXII. Can we say emergency run and gun setups at weddings? Fast focusing. Equals 9 months to 1 year of savings.

3. For 2300+ Get a 5D MKII <- wife would kill me and is it worth a grand extra that would takes 2+ years of savings. It has very decent ISO performance. However some tests indicate gets softer than the 7d at higher ISO's but less grain. So overall very decent image quality. Wider FOV, more DOF Negatives over the 7d. 1/200 xsync most triggers get 1/160. Vs 1/250 on cheaper cameras. Not as advanced focus or metering system. No popup master. I only own 1 580EXII and a bunch of manual flashes with radio slaves. So in my mind the only think the 5d has going for it is better noise capabilities and wider FOV.

I have a feeling the 7DMKII is going to be released soon. Its price will probably be around 2k about 100-300$ cheaper than the 5dMKII. I have a feeling the 7D price will drop to around 1200 or 1300 giving historical canon updates. So then we come into the delema of the 7D MKII or the 5dMKII for close to the same price. :P


So I am mainly a portrait photographer. the 20D is not limiting on that unless I want to shoot in dark stare wells but is during weddings. So that is my main concern.

I just want to know what you all's opinions are given my situation. The main factor is $ and time tell upgrade. When the 20D fails. I will still probably replace the shutter.

There's a lot of rumors indicating a new DSLR in Feb, though it probably won't be available for a few months after that.

When I decided to get the 5DII, I had to do the whole saving thing, just like you. A couple things I did:
1. Bought and sold stuff on craigslist...made about $500 from that in one sale.
2. Second shooter for a couple weddings...a few hundred.
3. Made a couple art sales...a couple hundred
4. Microstock sales...several hundred.

I ended up selling the old body (XSi) for about $400 which paid for the rest.

For portraits and wedding work, the 5DII is superb. Don't settle for less.

[bhursey]

Originally Posted by Photoboothguy

There's a lot of rumors indicating a new DSLR in Feb, though it probably won't be available for a few months after that.

When I decided to get the 5DII, I had to do the whole saving thing, just like you. A couple things I did:
1. Bought and sold stuff on craigslist...made about $500 from that in one sale.
2. Second shooter for a couple weddings...a few hundred.
3. Made a couple art sales...a couple hundred
4. Microstock sales...several hundred.

I ended up selling the old body (XSi) for about $400 which paid for the rest.

For portraits and wedding work, the 5DII is superb. Don't settle for less.

Well also I don't have any L lenses which are a big deal when moving to a full frame body that's another issue. I mainly use a Tamron 28-75mm f2.8 and a Canon 85mm f1.8. The canon 85mm I am not to worried about on the full frame but I hear the Tamron 28-75mm is soft on the edges at full frame and you have barrel distortion. So basically I should of added that if I get a 5DMK II that I will most likly need the 1k+$ Canon L 24-70mm f2.8 to get the same quality photos. I dono if I want to sell anything. Maybe my kit lens but I will get 20$ for it LOL. I pretty much use every single lens in my arsenal. I just want to get some input from people on both sides. I wonder if any one has done such a large jump as I have.. 8 years is a big space of time. The refined focus thing at 1.8 or higer on bodies is a big one. I have noticed both my 85mm f1.8 and 28-75mm at 2.8 miss focus. i would say 10% of the time. Thanks for your opinion. Have you tried out a 7d yet? We will see how much money I have in a year and if my 20D fails or not.

Originally Posted by bhursey

Well also I don't have any L lenses which are a big deal when moving to a full frame body that's another issue. I mainly use a Tamron 28-75mm f2.8 and a Canon 85mm f1.8. The canon 85mm I am not to worried about on the full frame but I hear the Tamron 28-75mm is soft on the edges at full frame and you have barrel distortion. So basically I should of added that if I get a 5DMK II that I will most likly need the 1k+$ Canon L 24-70mm f2.8 to get the same quality photos. I dono if I want to sell anything. Maybe my kit lens but I will get 20$ for it LOL. I pretty much use every single lens in my arsenal. I just want to get some input from people on both sides. I wonder if any one has done such a large jump as I have.. 8 years is a big space of time. The refined focus thing at 1.8 or higer on bodies is a big one. I have noticed both my 85mm f1.8 and 28-75mm at 2.8 miss focus. i would say 10% of the time. Thanks for your opinion. Have you tried out a 7d yet? We will see how much money I have in a year and if my 20D fails or not.

I have two friends that shoot with a 7D. It's a very nice camera, but the image quality and ISO noise are much better on the 5DII.

I didn't have any L-glass either when I bought the 5DII. I had a Sigma 24-70 f2.8, 50mm f1.4, and 70-200 f2.8. Between shooting weddings, art sales, and microstock, I've slowly upgraded my lens collection to L, with the exception of the 50mm f1.4 (I traded that in for 85 f1.4).

Maybe you'd be better off buying a T2i and some good lenses? Then when you're ready to go FF, you'll have the lenses for it.

Have you tried micro-stock? It's not huge money, but I've made about $1000 this year on 30-40 images on 3 sites (istock, shutterfly, dreamstime)...and I haven't loaded any images this year (all were uploaded last year).

If you want a real world comparison:
Ryan Taylor Photography | Dietzenbach-Richard Wedding (10.1.2011)

I shot this wedding with my 5DII, T1i as secondary (a few shots with that). My assistant was using a 7D. The shots are all lumped together, but the exif data can be seen with each photo. Also, you can download the full file if you want to pixel peep.

Oh, and all the reception shots are with the 5DII (my assistant left before then).

[bhursey]

Originally Posted by Photoboothguy

Maybe you'd be better off buying a T2i and some good lenses? Then when you're ready to go FF, you'll have the lenses for it.
.

The control scheme is horrible on Rebel series been there done that would be going backwards. I shoot full manual on basically everything now except when I am run and gun natural light outside. I think it would be more like 60D and some L lenses which is really tempting. I was looking at the 100 However I have tried out the 60d and it feels like a toy, the body to lens weight is just funky. Do sent feel solid in your hand. Still I was very impressed by the one one of my students had in my class I teach. The shutter is so quiet. However the 60d has a 100k shutter life vs the 150k shutter life of the 5d mkII and the 7D. So the big delama is between those two.

[bhursey]

Ohh ya check this out. 20D vs 7D ISO testing a 2-3 stop in iso performance difference. Im floored.

EOS 7D vs 20D ISO Performance

[gturner]

the only issue with the 5D is that some of your lens collection will become obselete and you will have a LOT of money to spend to fix. (either they will show up bad flaws or they are EFS)
7D would be my choice for you... or if it is a few bucks too much, then the 60D will do 99% of what you want (except feel as good in the hand)

EDIT
oops... delayed response... I was distracted.
Based on the above, 7D.
My 5D mkii AF drives me nuts shooting candids in average light. The 7D is far better. Of course, the tradeoff is there, but I think the 20D to 7D is huge jump

I would never go to the consumer level bodies. Menu systems and manual shooting are terrible if you are used to the wheels an dials

[bhursey]

Ya the 7D is where I am leaning. I know I am going tow ant the 7D MKII but that will probably be close to 2k in cost. So I need to set a goal of 1500$ and go toward it and then decide I think.

[tomservo51]

Originally Posted by bhursey

Ya the 7D is where I am leaning. I know I am going tow ant the 7D MKII but that will probably be close to 2k in cost. So I need to set a goal of 1500$ and go toward it and then decide I think.

If I were you. Based on what you use the camera for. I would do the 60D instead of the 7D. Use the extra to upgrade your glass. Why are you worried about shutter life when you current camera youve had for so long is only at 50k?