not sure what to do....

[metoo]

I've been searching this site all day and I can't find exactly what I'm looking for so, here goes....

I took some pics for a relative and she posted them to FB. Now I'm getting requests to take other peoples pictures. I do not feel I'm ready to charge people. I take candid pics of my kids/family. The first time I did any planned type shoot was those pictures. When/if/ever I do start a business I want to be really ready and confident. That said though, money doesn't grow on trees at our house and if someone is willing to pay me that is awesome! It would also be a good way to invest in better equipment.

After taking the pics for the relative, I have decided I'm absolutely not going hand them a CD of all the pics I took. I'm either going to charge a jacked up price per-print or do it completely free. if I do the jacked up price perprint what do I charge?Like double the price of the print? More? If I decide to go completely free(kinda more what I'm leaning towards)how do I get them prints without giving them a cd/high res digital image? If I upload to somewhere like snapfish are they able to download the pics or just order the prints they want? Am I over thinking this? I don't want them to be able to use the pictures that i think or terrible or edit them in a horrible way..... Is this just a terrible idea all together and I should just say no? I really like the idea of the practice and maybe building a portfolio for the future, but I have very basic equipment....... I'm kinda embarrassed posting this because I had NO plans to charge ever really.

What would you do in this situation?

[kokabeel]

You don't need to give them all images. You can stipulate what you're going to give them in the model release/contract. You can give them, for instance, 5-15 images raw with a few fully edited on a CD.

If you just want to give them prints and no images to use on websites on a cd(which I don't understand why you want to do just prints but eh) then again stipulate what amount you will be uploading to a print site and they can buy the prints , and as many as they want.

If you're not confident in your abilities don't charge them. If you botch it , or the images are not up to par they could be mad, you could be mad, and it could reflect poorly on you. Also consider if you DO want to start a business your images will be your ticket to either getting hired or not. The higher the pay the higher the expectations of clients. So start out small, do work for TFCD, or ask for very little pay(gas, cd etc). If you do TFCD you can use said images for your portfolio.

If you upload them to any website they can be downloaded. Java script restriction or not they can be downloaded. You need to watermark them.



If I were you(which I've been in this situation) I would do a free shoot, and stipulate the amount of images they will get on a CD. Also, given the fact that you give them a CD you should look at a print release that stipulates how many times it can be printed. Also in said contract you need to stipulate the rules of use of the images. They cannot edit the images without your permission, they cannot use it commercially or for profit etc...

[graciousness]

There's no point doing a free shoot if they are willing to pay you. They've seen the photos and if they are happy with what you produce, then why do it for free?

One thing though and that is, if you want to do this, you need to do it properly. I was in the same situation as you just a couple of weeks ago when all of a sudden, I had a few families ask me to take photos and they were willing to pay. So I really had to think if I wanted to do it and one I decided I did, I had a serious think about what I need to do.

First off is pricing. Are you going to offer prints and digital copies or only one of those? If you are offering prints, is your monitor calibrated to ensure that the photos come out correctly as you want the colours to be? If you are offering digital copies, are you going to offer high resolution files or maybe just perhaps small resolution for web share?

And then there's the pricing. What I did was put the price of how I would normally would like to charge if I was doing a proper business with it and then gave a good discount as a friends and family or holiday discount or promotional. I wasn't quite comfortable and ready to charge the normal rates I want and since I was still trying to set up, I gave 'discounted' promotional price.

In regards to printing, I would highly recommend looking for a local photo lab than online. I find that a lot of online printers are not good enough and it's better to develop a good relationship with a local professional lab. After all, you want to make sure you are providing professional prints with your professional services.

There is a lot to think about but I think at some point, if you are being approached for your services and they know the quality of your work, then why not do the job and get paid for it?

Just my 2 cents worth and I'm sure others will come along and give different advice.

Cheers,

Grace

[metoo]

Honestly, I have no idea how a photography business works. I took the pics for the relative because I was trying to help her save some money and I thought it would be fun. I actually had a lot more fun doing the planned shoot then I thought I would. I was planning on doing a few others for family/close friends, just for practice. And maybe see where I was by the end of the year.....
The people that contacted her I don't know, so I don't know what to do. I have no idea what a reasonable rate to charge is. Because I'm not super confident if I do charge I would like it to be some sort of money back guarantee? I didn't wan to give out a CD with the pictures, because I did that before and they picked some shots I thought were terrible. Plus, that is basically giving them a negative. If I do go into business at some point I didn't want to do that. Unless I'm just a nut and that's standard practice.

I was thinking of selling the prints and then uploading whatever got ordered very low resolution on FB for web use.... I could do the prints then give a low resolution CD of what ever they ordered. Probably more professional lol. Is it standard practice to give high resolutions of every picture they buy on CD? Do you water mark the pictures on the CD?

No, my monitor is not calobrated. My husband is suppose to be looking into that for me. So far I've never had issues with my prints though. Of course i print from ummmm, walmart and snapfish. If I go through a Pro Printer do I need a business licenses/tax id? I"m still not really planning on opening a business. If these shoots go well and I get more people asking I might, but other wise I'm going to go with my original plan and do a bunch of shoots for close friends/family along with my 52 Project and see where I am at the end of the year. Is it terrible to use say snapfish for now and switch to a pro lab when/if I open a business? Is it a bad idea to tell them I'm giving them a reduced rate because I'm currently portfolio building not actually running a business? Or do you do all free shoots when you are portfolio building?

Also when building a portfolio what do you do? Do you print out a photo book? Do you have it online somewhere? If you have it online I'm assuming Flkr/fb is not good enough? lol I've heard you only want to put int like 1-2 pictures from each shoot you've done right? How many pictures total do you want in there? Any good websites you could direct me to would be great too!

[metoo]

Oh one more thing, if I want to use the pictures to build a protfolio do I need them to sign some sort of release? Is there a website some where that shows a copy of what would be in the release if I do need one?

[graciousness]

Phew, you are nervous, aren't you! Reminds me of someone a few months ago when asked for a family portrait to be done and I posted here on DPS about it......and that person would be me

Put it this way, if you are really that nervous about it and you are not ready, then don't do it. It will show on the day how nervous you are and it will somewhat affect your work (to some, they work better under pressure but it's not everybody). If you are only comfortable shooting your family and friends, then do that and kindly decline the strangers request to have their photos taken.

However, at some point, you need to realise if being nervous is only out of fear or if it's your gut instinct telling you not to do it. You need to determine if it's only out of fear and if you are ready to pursue this business a little bit more seriously, even if just portfolio building.

You don't have to completely set up now just to shoot a few people. You can still treat it as casual shoots with just a little bit of pay for compensation for your time and labour. In saying this, though, you need to at least figure out what to charge them and how you want to deliver the photos. Go and research how much others charge - go online and search and most photopgrapher's websites do have pricing in them. Or just come up with a number that you feel comfortable enough to be compensated for your time, labour and expenses (if any).

In regards to prints, I would highly recommend trying out local pro lab. Find out what their requirements are for the prints, etc. I also highly recommend to calibrate your monitor regardless of which print places you use. I've only just recently calibrated and I couldn't believe the difference it made!

In regards to digital copies, some will argue not to give high resolution ones, some will argue that this is a modern age and most people expect to have high resolution copies. Depending on how picky you are with quality control over your work, it really is up to you what is acceptable. You do need to realise that by giving high resolution files, you are risking yoru clients re-editing your files and losing potential profits from prints. Also, if you let your clients print, the chances that those photos will look like crap is there. That will reflect on your work.

However, if you want to simplify your service and just offer high resolution files, then price it accordingly. You simply just don't want to give them away as these files are your livelihood. Photographers make money not from the shooting fee but from the actual files/photos they offer.

You don't have to give clients all of the photos you shoot. You pick the best ones you feel you want to show them and let them choose (if you like). Remember that beauty is subjective and if clients like certain photos for personal reasons, I wouldn't argue with that.

For the moment, just de-clutter your mind and determine whether you do want to do the shoot with these strangers or not. And then determine what you want to charge and what services you want to offer. You don't have to think about anything else at this time, but concentrate on this matter alone. Someone wants photos done and they are willing to pay. Forget anyone else but them and simply determine if you want to do it or not and at what price.

Anything else can wait.

Cheers,

Grace

[andyw]

A few DON'TS

Don't work for free for anyone except the closest relatives (and even then make sure they are well aware of the amount of work and expense involved)
DON'T ever give ALL the pics from a session on CD or proofs. Only ever let the client see the best work.
DON'T ever upload the images to a site for them to order from unless that site allows you to put your price uplift on and that price is the only one the customer sees.
DON'T ever think that if you offer a print for £/$10 which costs you £/$1 to produce that it is a "jacked up" price. It is the price you sell at to cover your costs/expenses and time. Do you think that a Ferrari really costs £150,000 to produce?
DON'T ever think that just because you only have basic equipment or minimal experience that you should not charge. If a potential client is coming to you and asking you to take the pictures then THEY think that you are good enough.


A photography business runs in exactly the same way as any other business. They need to supply what the client wants at a price they are willing to pay and that the business can survive and make a profit from.

In business those prices are normally based on the Cost of doing business.
That is, ALL your expenses PLUS what profit you expect/want to make then divided by the amount of days you work/sittings you will get.
So if with ALL your costs (this will help you work that out https://www.nppa.org/professional_de...db/cdbcalc.cfm ) that works out to 20k a year and you expect to work 150 days that means that for every sitting you have to make 133.33 per day. You then work out sitting/print costs from there.



There are a multitude of ways you can sell your work to the client (prints/uploads for them to order/CD etc etc) and there is no "best" way, but whatever way you do it you have to make your rate from it.

If you want to know what the "normal" way is then check out other photographers in your area or just go on the www and google portrait photographers and see the sort of packages etc that people are offering.

Personally, and I add I am not in the portrait business, I would try and steer clear of offering hi res shots on CD.
I would offer prints and a cd with lo-res for use on FB etc. If the client wanted/insisted on hi-res on disc then they would pay an uplift based on the print prices.
Prints would NOT be from some cheap High St printer, they should be from a pro-lab where you can guarantee the quality. After all, the reason they are coming to you is for your skills and the quality of the final product. That after all is why you will charge what you do.

If you are planning on making this a business, either full or part time, then you should have a web presence. FB and Flickr are NOT (imho) good enough. You need your own site.
I have no idea about licenses etc where you are but if you get "serious" about the business aspect then you must research it thoroughly.


Just my 2p worth.

[autofocus]

Well, everyone that is now doing photography for a fee started out with all the same questions you have. So, if it's any comfort, you are not alone with your trepidations. BTW, some of those fears will never go away even after you've developed your skills and confidence. I'm sure I'll miss some of your questions, but allow me to make some suggestions that, hopefully, will help you. In no particular order think about the following:
* create a price sheet for your services that includes your sitting fees (based on number of subjects with possible travel adder), enlargement and re-print prices, and maybe some of your terms and conditions. Understand, this will be your "start out" price sheet based on what you think your current abilities will support, and as you advance you will able to raise your prices. We (wife and I are both photographers) literally have 30+ iterations of our price sheets on our computer as we raised the prices for our service over the years.
* Many pro labs will want you to have a resale tax certificate...what that means is you will be charging sales tax to your clients and will need to account for that at year end and tax time. Some areas may also include the need for you to be licensed
* If you have a Costco near by, don't be afraid to use them for some of your print requirements. Their finished product is quite good, and very cost effective. ($.13 for a 4x6, $2.99 for an 11x14, etc) We use them only for 4x6 proofs that I watermark. (too easy for people to scan photos nowadays) We also use them for enlargements to be exhibited. For all other customer re-prints, enlargements, and photo products we use several pro labs. We'll only sell a print (or prints) on disk on a very limited basis, regardless of the resolution, and the client will pay a fat premium for it.
* You can setup a facebook page for your photography business where you can post watermarked images of your clients. They can friend you to have visual access to the photos, but being this is a form of promoting your business you will need their permission first (best to have it in writing with a model release..you can find the typical boiler plate and various versions with a google search)
* You may want to consider insurance as there could be some potential liabilities to be concerned with
* Understand that there will always be some free photos/services done for friends and family members. My wife is a rabid photographer and will do a lot of this, in spite of my desire to muzzle her (I'm the one that does all the edits, so it does make me a little crazy to spend hours on the computer doing free photo edits, but I've had no luck winning this battle, lol) Bear in mind, the proliferation of your photos will help in building your portfolio and also spread the word of your photography services as others see these photos...all part of growing your business.
* See if you can find local businesses that will allow you to hang some of your work. Simple white mats on a Costco printed 11x14 can be used for this purpose. Over the years, we've done this at local restaurants, coffee shops, hospitals, libraries, etc. Remember, any form of promoting your business will require model or property releases.
* Eventually, you will want to create your own website

I hope this gives you some ideas to consider. Don't be afraid to charge for your services. Most people probably start with low prices based on what they think their skills and services are worth..kind of the norm. But, don't be afraid to raise your prices as you build your skills and confidence. If you establish your business as a "budget photographer" you will always be known as one. Just something to think about.

[Pinellas Guy]

I agree with many of the things already stated.

Regarding prints - there are a lot of prosumer labs out there that anyone can print at.

Home : Mpix.Com, Nations Photo Lab - Professional Photo Printing and Digital Photo Finishing Services Online, Bay Photo Lab ? Professional Photo Printing | Digital Prints, Photo Canvas, MetalPrints, ThinWraps, Albums, Books, ROES. Nations and Bayphoto uses the ROES system which many of the pro labs use. MPIX, a division of Millers, allows you to upload photos to albums very much like the consumer labs. You can then share these albums with anyone and they print/order from there.

Why you ask, do you want to print at a prosumer lab. They print on Kodak Professional Endure and Metallic paper. They also color calibrate each and every photo. You want to color calibrate your monitor at home for best result. I recommend, like many labs do, the X-Rite i1Display 2 - well worth the investment. Like one of the comments - as photographers (professional or not) the image is our name. If anyone lets you know that you can get a 4x6 for .14 at the corner store. Print an image from there and get the same image printed on pro paper and you will notice the different - pro paper is also thicker.

Keep in mind that photography is an expensive hobby/business - the price of the print is the least expensive element when it comes to pricing. Photoshop, camera bodies, glass, books on posing, photoshop, seminars, etc all come into how to correctly price a photo. When you do start to charge, make sure you let them know that these are "Portfolio Building prices". Get a model release that permits you to display the image on FB, or your website, when you get one.

Learn how to "capture the moment", how to pose, photo composition, watch out for the background and make sure there are no lightpoles or tree trunks behind the head. Instead of calling it candid photography call it lifestyle photography. One last thing - turn that snapshop into a photographic portrait. You make photos, not take them.

X-Rite i1Display 2 Colorimeter Monitor Profile Solution EODIS2

[Jim Bryant]

Originally Posted by metoo

Honestly, I have no idea how a photography business works.

There are plenty of books about photography business that one can either check in the library system or purchase from Amazon.com.