Need advice on what to tell Bride

[dnpayne]

I'm having a little trouble with my wording skills today and I was hoping to see if I could get some advice from you all.

Here is the deal, I shot a wedding for a couple back in October. I just finished their photos this week and handed them over to them to view. I get an email today from the Bride saying that the photos looked great, but she was asking about a particular photo.

The photo in question was a large group photo (60 people) from her side of the family. Now, let me try to fill you in. On the big day, not once was I told about this large group photo. It was sprung onto me at the last minute by one of the brides cousin's. Well, a long story short... it was pitch black at the reception and we just didn't have the room to setup a nice portrait. Not to mention is wasn't on my radar. Anyway, we ended up cramming everyone in this corner (in front of the DJ equipment) and tried to snap this shot. People were overlapping people, lighting was horrible... etc. I knew it wasn't going to turn out after I took it. Anyway, it looks horrible. Horrible background setting, horrible lighting... and I just don't want to even show this to anyone.

So, how do I explain this to the bride? I looked back through all of our correspondence and my notes (we had shot lists for the day and group shot lists, including pre and post ceremony shot lists, etc..) and I saw nothing mentioning this large group photo.

Obviously, I don't want to upset her, so I'm thinking about offering her my time to setup a formal family portrait for her entire family to make up for it not turning out at the reception. I know this may not be a possibility as some people may have came in from out of town, but I want to keep her happy. Personally, I don't think I HAVE to do anything as we didn't discuss it prior to the day.

Thoughts? Where do you think I stand on this?

Thanks all.

[bhursey]

Well... You did not have any sort of off camera lighting equipment with you? Its always good to bring that. Also was it day time out side. A groom shot with 60 people is very difficult to pull off. It would need to be outside to get enough light. I did one with 30 people and I had to be at f8-f10 and I barly had enough power with 2 off camera strobes at full power. Image: http://bhursey.zenfolio.com/ryan_and...01fa#h24bc01fa note i was not totally happy with it. The arrangement of every one was ideal. Mainly this is because I was very rushed and they wanted a large amount of post ceremony photos. The problem is on the canon 20D's screen it is very hard to see if you see every one. Normally what I tell them is "Can you see the flash, me and the camera with each eye?" If not please move tell you can.

This is one of the situations you really can not win.. Was it a situation you were not expecting sure. However you are being paid to be able to have those resources to be able to solve issues like that. Do you have anything in your contract disusing not being at fault for things out of your control?


From my wedding contract:
SHOOTING TIME / ADDITIONS: The photography schedule and selected methodology are designed to accomplish the goals and wishes of THE CLIENT in a manner enjoyed by all parties involved. THE CLIENT and “BRIAN HURSEY Photography” agree that positive cooperation and punctuality are therefore essential. Shooting commences at the scheduled time. Should the ceremony start late due to any reason whatsoever, “BRIAN HURSEY Photography” will not be held liable for any photographs not taken. The bride and/or groom agree to allow for 2 hours before the commencement of the wedding ceremony for Bride / Groom / Wedding Party formals and approximately 1 hour after ceremony for photographs that cannot be obtained during the ceremony or reception. The 1 hour following the ceremony includes group photographs. If either the bride’s or groom’s
late arrival (or any other reason outside of the photographer’s control) prevents this 3 hour window from occurring, “BRIAN HURSEY Photography” shall not be held liable for failure to take desired photographs. BRIAN HURSEY Photography will strive to complete photos after ceremony in as timely of a manor as possible to allow you to enjoy your guests.

NON-GUARANTEE: Although every possible care will be taken to produce photographs of all important and special events during the wedding, “BRIAN HURSEY Photography” cannot place an unconditional guarantee on the above. “BRIAN HURSEY Photography” will not be held responsible for any ruined photographs due to guests’ (or any other)
flashes; or any other ruined photographs due to any other cause in or outside of “BRIAN HURSEY Photography’s” control.

But the question is should you of had the equipment to be able to handle any situation you would run into at the wedding?

The only thing to do would be to offer another shoot. Going into the technicalities of why the shoot did not turn out may only cause more issues.

[Niresangwa]

Originally Posted by dnpayne

I'm having a little trouble with my wording skills today and I was hoping to see if I could get some advice from you all.

Here is the deal, I shot a wedding for a couple back in October. I just finished their photos this week and handed them over to them to view. I get an email today from the Bride saying that the photos looked great, but she was asking about a particular photo.

The photo in question was a large group photo (60 people) from her side of the family. Now, let me try to fill you in. On the big day, not once was I told about this large group photo. It was sprung onto me at the last minute by one of the brides cousin's. Well, a long story short... it was pitch black at the reception and we just didn't have the room to setup a nice portrait. Not to mention is wasn't on my radar. Anyway, we ended up cramming everyone in this corner (in front of the DJ equipment) and tried to snap this shot. People were overlapping people, lighting was horrible... etc. I knew it wasn't going to turn out after I took it. Anyway, it looks horrible. Horrible background setting, horrible lighting... and I just don't want to even show this to anyone.

So, how do I explain this to the bride? I looked back through all of our correspondence and my notes (we had shot lists for the day and group shot lists, including pre and post ceremony shot lists, etc..) and I saw nothing mentioning this large group photo.

Obviously, I don't want to upset her, so I'm thinking about offering her my time to setup a formal family portrait for her entire family to make up for it not turning out at the reception. I know this may not be a possibility as some people may have came in from out of town, but I want to keep her happy. Personally, I don't think I HAVE to do anything as we didn't discuss it prior to the day.

Thoughts? Where do you think I stand on this?

Thanks all.

Just be honest with her and tell her it didn't work out.

Obviously you aren't strictly under any obligation, but then again personally I feel that as wedding photographers we're expected to be able to handle these situations on the fly, and not have to revert to a pre-decided list to hide behind.

I've had the situation you described happen plenty of times, and you have to make the best of it, (and I'm sure from now on you will). In my experience however, they don't really expect a high quality shot, with spotless exposure and background no blinks blah blah snore... they just want it to have it.

Is it really that bad? As in blurry and completely crap? Or is it just a case of you can bring to a consumer-acceptible level in post?

[dnpayne]

Originally Posted by bhursey

Well... You did not have any sort of off camera lighting equipment with you? Its always good to bring that. Also was it day time out side. A groom shot with 60 people is very difficult to pull off. I did one with 40 people. This is one of the situations you really can not win.. Was it a situation you were not expecting sure. However you are being paid to be able to have those resources to be able to solve issues like that. Do you have anything in your contract disusing not being at fault for things out of your control?


From my wedding contract:
SHOOTING TIME / ADDITIONS: The photography schedule and selected methodology are designed to accomplish the goals and wishes of THE CLIENT in a manner enjoyed by all parties involved. THE CLIENT and “BRIAN HURSEY Photography” agree that positive cooperation and punctuality are therefore essential. Shooting commences at the scheduled time. Should the ceremony start late due to any reason whatsoever, “BRIAN HURSEY Photography” will not be held liable for any photographs not taken. The bride and/or groom agree to allow for 2 hours before the commencement of the wedding ceremony for Bride / Groom / Wedding Party formals and approximately 1 hour after ceremony for photographs that cannot be obtained during the ceremony or reception. The 1 hour following the ceremony includes group photographs. If either the bride’s or groom’s
late arrival (or any other reason outside of the photographer’s control) prevents this 3 hour window from occurring, “BRIAN HURSEY Photography” shall not be held liable for failure to take desired photographs. BRIAN HURSEY Photography will strive to complete photos after ceremony in as timely of a manor as possible to allow you to enjoy your guests.

NON-GUARANTEE: Although every possible care will be taken to produce photographs of all important and special events during the wedding, “BRIAN HURSEY Photography” cannot place an unconditional guarantee on the above. “BRIAN HURSEY Photography” will not be held responsible for any ruined photographs due to guests’ (or any other)
flashes; or any other ruined photographs due to any other cause in or outside of “BRIAN HURSEY Photography’s” control.

But the question is should you of had the equipment to be able to handle any situation you would run into at the wedding?

The only thing to do would be to offer another shoot. Going into the technicalities of why the shoot did not turn out may only cause more issues.

Yep. I have a similar excerpt in my contract. And, it was pitch black outside (thats where the reception was partially). I really tried coming up with another option, but there just wasn't any way at all. Trust me.

[dnpayne]

Originally Posted by Niresangwa

Just be honest with her and tell her it didn't work out.

Obviously you aren't strictly under any obligation, but then again personally I feel that as wedding photographers we're expected to be able to handle these situations on the fly, and not have to revert to a pre-decided list to hide behind.

I've had the situation you described happen plenty of times, and you have to make the best of it, (and I'm sure from now on you will). In my experience however, they don't really expect a high quality shot, with spotless exposure and background no blinks blah blah snore... they just want it to have it.

Is it really that bad? As in blurry and completely crap? Or is it just a case of you can bring to a consumer-acceptible level in post?

It could probably work just to have SOMETHING, but I personally hate it and don't like the fact that my name is tied to it. It's a tad blurry (had trouble focusing because it was so dark).

Here's a question.. if I make this one work (It's not looking good at the moment) do I still offer a new shoot?

[Niresangwa]

Originally Posted by dnpayne

It could probably work just to have SOMETHING, but I personally hate it and don't like the fact that my name is tied to it. It's a tad blurry (had trouble focusing because it was so dark).

Here's a question.. if I make this one work (It's not looking good at the moment) do I still offer a new shoot?

I don't think you need to do that. One, it won't redress or replace the image in question as people won't be there, and two it's too much for essentially a missed candid... ofer a print credit or something small if you really feel the need.

Just write her back and say that you have the image, and as you cautioned them at the time, it may not work out and not be ideal. Obviously, it didnt, to the point you'd not want it released on the web etc, however if she wants it for sentimental reasons, you'll get in the best shape it can possibly be.

[bhursey]

Originally Posted by dnpayne

It could probably work just to have SOMETHING, but I personally hate it and don't like the fact that my name is tied to it. It's a tad blurry (had trouble focusing because it was so dark).

Here's a question.. if I make this one work (It's not looking good at the moment) do I still offer a new shoot?

Depends on how mad she is. I sell prints I never give digitals. So for me another shoot would = more prints so I would offer a 1-2 hour family shoot.. However for you, you give away digital's as part as your shooting package so you will in no way get a monetary value out of your shoot.

For example I just shot a wedding. They were not able to do the included engagement shoot because of scheduling conflicts with mine and their scheduled. So I offered to do a family shoot later on. We have it scheduled for the spring.

Personally if you were shooting a wedding you should of had some sort of lighting equipment in reserve. Did you have a flash or anything like that? I literally have a full studio box in my trunk of my car.

This was my last wedding kit and it was for a wedding with only 60 people total with no grooms men or brides maids.


Wedding kit for today. by Brian Hursey, on Flickr

Impromptu outdoor group shot at night? LOL

Yeah, without setting up several lights, that would have been incredibly hard. And even then, with 60 people, you're bound to have harsh shadows in the absence of any ambient light.

I'd just say "Sorry, I did the best I could with the conditions I had. This was an incredibly hard shot to take correctly given the number of subjects, lighting conditions, and lack of advanced notice."

[dnpayne]

Originally Posted by bhursey

Depends on how mad she is. I sell prints I never give digitals. So for me another shoot would = more prints so I would offer a 1-2 hour family shoot.. However for you, you give away digital's as part as your shooting package so you will in no way get a monetary value out of your shoot.

For example I just shot a wedding. They were not able to do the included engagement shoot because of scheduling conflicts with mine and their scheduled. So I offered to do a family shoot later on. We have it scheduled for the spring.

Personally if you were shooting a wedding you should of had some sort of lighting equipment in reserve. Did you have a flash or anything like that? I literally have a full studio box in my trunk of my car.

This was my last wedding kit and it was for a wedding with only 60 people total with no grooms men or brides maids.


Wedding kit for today. by Brian Hursey, on Flickr

I did have my main 430ex flash I was using throughout the night on my 5dii. I don't carry near as much stuff though. I have two bodies, a few lenses, tripod, flash that I use. I'm still learning with the flash as sometimes I have trouble getting good light spread across a large area, say.. a group of 60 people.

[karen_s]

I'm no wedding photographer but I do understand not wanting your name tied to a photo you don't like or falls short. However, if I were the bride, I'd probably want it even if Uncle Vern is a blurry blob and the woman next to him appears to have no hair.

Maybe, if you can get it reasonably passable, you could offer a small print of it and include a discount coupon for a large family portrait in the future. It would give you time to prepare and hopefully give a better result. They may never take you up on the offer but it might be seen as a good will offering none the less.