Friday Morning Rant 'People Are Cheap'

[dnpayne]

Hey all, I've got a rant for you. I recently had a customer put down a deposit for a wedding package. We talked via phone, then followed up with email on what they wanted. She picked her package (off my website) and just mailed me a deposit before I could get her the official agreement with details broken out (I don't recommend this, but she couldn't wait to get her date reserved). No biggie. I got the agreement worked up and emailed it over.

Now, the wedding is about an hour and a half away from me and I told her on the phone I would have to charge a travel fee. I told her $150. Afterall, I'm traveling 3 hours roundtrip, plus wear and tear on my vehicle and gas expenses. Not to mention 3 hours of my time. AND, her package includes and engagement session, which I will be traveling the same distance for with no extra charge.

I'll go ahead and give you details on the package she chose:

All day coverage (9 hours)
Unlimited high-res images
Editing + Correcting for all images
Online ordering + viewing gallery
Engagement or Bridal Portrait Session
8 1/2 x 11 Photo Guest Book
10 x 10 leather album w/ 40 pages
DVD of images
Print release for all images
Custom DVD book case
2 photographers onsite

She gets all this for $1979 + $150 travel fee.

You see where I'm going with this? She thinks the $150 is too expensive!! Huh? She said that if I was spending the night then she would understand. I'm pretty sure I would spend at least $100 a night on a hotel room. So, is she really saying my 6 hours of driving, gas and wear and tear on my vehicle is only worth $50? This drives me nuts. Afterall, my prices are WAY below the average around this area for what she is getting.

Anyone have similar stories? Or, am I the only one finding the ridiculously cheap clients?

BTW: I countered back to try to be negotiable at $125 and said that was as low as I could go.

[andyw]

"unlimited high-res images"

What on earth does that mean.

[BuddhaPi]

Originally Posted by andyw

"unlimited high-res images"

What on earth does that mean.

I think it means the client is going to want 1500 images, but there will only be 1200 images presented, which put the photog in breach on contract, and he'll end up doing it all for free..

[Hill Country Hack]

I agree folks can be cheap and try to get the best deal they can for any goods/services. I agree your package is very modestly priced for what the bride will be getting.


Let's run some numbers:
Travel- I am assuming 1 1/2 hours of driving equals 105 miles if travelling 70mph. At .35 per mile, your vehicle expenses equal $36.75 of the $150 charged. The $113.25 remaining divided by three hours of travel equals $37.75 per hour to drive to and from the venue. I did not factor in the engagement shoot since you already contracted no travel expense.

Carrying the travel per hour rate to the wedding shoot, the nine hours contracted is $339.75 for your time. How much of the remaining $1639.25 is eaten up with x hours times $37.75 of PP, wear and tear on equipment, production costs of the guest book and album, custom book case, general overhead (website expenses, insurance, anything else I may be missing) and paying the 2nd shooter?

This is a long answer to the question of is your driving time really worth $37 per hour? If so, stick to your guns. If not, then negotiate and see if you can come to an agreement. Otherwise be prepared to return the deposit and thank her for considering you for her wedding shoot.

[dnpayne]

Originally Posted by andyw

"unlimited high-res images"

What on earth does that mean.

It means there is no limit to the number of pictures I take on the big day. Is it that hard to understand? I don't promise a set number, just that I will take as many as I can get... hence the unlimited part.

[dnpayne]

Originally Posted by Hill Country Hack

I agree folks can be cheap and try to get the best deal they can for any goods/services. I agree your package is very modestly priced for what the bride will be getting.


Let's run some numbers:
Travel- I am assuming 1 1/2 hours of driving equals 105 miles if travelling 70mph. At .35 per mile, your vehicle expenses equal $36.75 of the $150 charged. The $113.25 remaining divided by three hours of travel equals $37.75 per hour to drive to and from the venue. I did not factor in the engagement shoot since you already contracted no travel expense.

Carrying the travel per hour rate to the wedding shoot, the nine hours contracted is $339.75 for your time. How much of the remaining $1639.25 is eaten up with x hours times $37.75 of PP, wear and tear on equipment, production costs of the guest book and album, custom book case, general overhead (website expenses, insurance, anything else I may be missing) and paying the 2nd shooter?

This is a long answer to the question of is your driving time really worth $37 per hour? If so, stick to your guns. If not, then negotiate and see if you can come to an agreement. Otherwise be prepared to return the deposit and thank her for considering you for her wedding shoot.

Yep, you are pretty much right on. I factor $40/hr for driving time + .55 a mile. And, its not that my driving time is worth $40/ hr... it's my time in general. I'm sticking to my guns on this one.

[dnpayne]

Originally Posted by BuddhaPi

I think it means the client is going to want 1500 images, but there will only be 1200 images presented, which put the photog in breach on contract, and he'll end up doing it all for free..

Really?

The client doesn't dictate the number of photos I take. I do.

Some photogs limit the number they will receive to say 300 images. I don't. If I have 305, you'll get the 305. Or, if I have 500 you'll get 500.

[Hill Country Hack]

Originally Posted by dnpayne

Really?

The client doesn't dictate the number of photos I take. I do.

Some photogs limit the number they will receive to say 300 images. I don't. If I have 305, you'll get the 305. Or, if I have 500 you'll get 500.

I believe Budda and Grumpy are referring to the word "unlimited". You can not provide unlimited images as unlimited can mean infinity. A simple wording change may be in order. Maybe along the lines of "within the photographer's opinion, all acceptable photographs will be made available to the client...blah, blah". You sure don't want to make available the images you would delete due to technical issues, just all the keepers.

[BuddhaPi]

Originally Posted by dnpayne

Really?

The client doesn't dictate the number of photos I take. I do.

Some photogs limit the number they will receive to say 300 images. I don't. If I have 305, you'll get the 305. Or, if I have 500 you'll get 500.

I wasn't being totally serious, but the statement "unlimited" is open to interpretation, in this day and age, I think it's important to be crystal clear, to cover your a$$..

at one time I offered unlimited minor updates/changes to my clients sites..didn't take long for a few to figure out, where they could send me a new telephone # one day, then a new paragraph, a couple days later, only to be followed by a new photo a couple days after that.. so yeah...all minor updates for sure, but they seemed to interpret it a bit differently that what i had in mind...

[BuddhaPi]

Originally Posted by Hill Country Hack

I believe Budda and Grumpy are referring to the word "unlimited". You can not provide unlimited images as unlimited can mean infinity. A simple wording change may be in order. Maybe along the lines of "within the photographer's opinion, all acceptable photographs will be made available to the client...blah, blah". You sure don't want to make available the images you would delete due to technical issues, just all the keepers.

thanx HCH, you said it much better than me!